John Lydon, an English singer and songwriter and current front man of PiL (Public Image Limited) chats with Kevin Cooper about how hurt he is over the Danny Boyle mini series about the Sex Pistols, his opinion of Malcolm McLaren, his guilt over Sid Vicious and PiL’s forthcoming 2022 tour of the UK.

John Lydon is an English singer and songwriter who was lead singer of the Sex Pistols and now fronts PiL (Public Image Limited).

In 1975 his outspoken personality and rebellious image brought him to the attention of Malcolm McLaren, the Sex Pistols manager and he was asked to join the band that comprised Steve Jones, Glen Matlock and Paul Cook. Lydon became known as Johnny Rotten during this period because of the very poor state of his teeth.

From the outset the relationship with McLaren was very fractious and both Lydon and Matlock agreed that McLaren would play them against each other. The result was that Matlock left the band only to be replaced with Lydon’s school friend, Sid Vicious.

With the Sex Pistols he wrote several singles which included Anarchy In The UK, God Save The Queen, Pretty Vacant and Holidays In The Sun. In 1977 they released their only and highly influential studio album, Never Mind The Bollocks, Here’s The Sex Pistols.

In 1978, the Sex Pistols disbanded but because of their controversial lyrics and disrepute at the time, they were regarded as one of the most influential bands in the history of music.

In 1978 Lydon founded his own band, PiL (Public Image Limited) with bassist Jah Wobble, and former Clash guitarist Keith Levene. PiL have released ten studio albums and several singles which include Public Image, Death Disco and Rise. By 1984 Wobble and Levene had left the band leaving Lydon as the sole member.

PiL reformed in 2009, with different band members; drummer Bruce Smith, guitarist Lu Edmonds, and bassist Scott Firth.

Lydon has also written three autobiographies; Rotten: No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs in 1993, Anger Is An Energy: My Life Uncensored in 2014 and in 2020 I Could Be Wrong: I Could Be Right. He has also produced some solo work such as Psycho’s Path in 1997.

In 2018 Lydon announced that his wife of 46 years, Nora Forster, had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease.

Whilst busy preparing and rehearsing for PiL’s forthcoming tour of the UK, Lydon took some time out to have a chat with Kevin Cooper and this is what he had to say.

Good morning, John.

Who is this?

It’s Kevin from the UK.

That’s really great, groovy news. Wow I really am so very excited (laughter).

I was going to say thanks for taking the time to speak to me, but I have absolutely no idea what I am going to be faced with in the next forty-five minutes (laughter).

Well, let me tell you, you are going to have a very pleasant experience; I think that is guaranteed. So, how can I be of use, prey tell (laughter). Hang on, you and I have spoken before, haven’t we?

Yes, that’s right, we have.

Weren’t you that fresh faced copper who followed me all around Nottingham with a copy of Never Mind The Bollocks under his arm during the trial?

That’s right; I am guilty as charged (laughter).

Well, what can I say; it’s a small world after all.

It is indeed. So, we had better move on and let me ask you, just how is life treating John Lydon at this moment in time?

It’s alright, its fine. We have our ups and downs but doesn’t everybody. I mustn’t complain and I mustn’t grumble because quite frankly, there are a lot of people out there suffering a lot worse than anything that I can ever come up against.

You and I last spoke prior to the last PiL tour here in the UK. Were you pleased with the fan’s reaction, especially to the newer material?

I have to say that Public Image live is always a pleasant experience, always. It’s great that all of the audiences understand that we are sharing real emotions with them, and that always makes for a human evening. The only person who really suffers from doing a live performance is me because of the nerves before I go on.

Are you telling me that after all of these years and numerous appearances live, that you still get nervous before a show?

Yes, it’s true, I get terrified. Stage fright is magnanimously mine (laughter).

I find that absolutely amazing because the persona that you portray when on stage certainly does not come across as someone who suffers from stage fright.

Well, after all of these years I started studying up on it and I found out that a lot of big-name actors suffer with it too. They mention it in their books whenever they write their memoirs or autobiographies. It seems to be an important part of the profession. If you didn’t care, you would just walk out onto the stage and be indifferent. However, because I do care, I put myself through fucking hell, but it’s worth it (laughter). As you know, I don’t know any other way except to tell it like it is.

I can remember reading some years ago that it was extreme stage freight that put paid to Donny Osmond’s career for a while.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear (laughter). I think that it is more likely that his voice broke (laughter).

We must mention your recent book tour, I Could Be Wrong, I Could Be Right, how did it go. Did you enjoy it?

Yes, I did, very much so. The book tour really was an overwhelming experience because you don’t expect to be able to fill small theatres and halls with people just to be able to talk about a book. And yet, that was the experience. Nearly every night felt completely different, all in a good and different way. It was very much like going to a social club where you know everybody; one of those marvellous celebratory parties, or a really good country pub with all of your friends. It really was excellent. The questions, the fun, the jokes, and we even managed to turn it into karaoke some evenings. I even had a bit of a sing song from time to time to some old Abba songs and that’s just how it should be (laughter).

All my stage performances are all really stand-up comedy at times if you get it right. And stand up is sadness too if you manage to get it even further right. There should be no self-pity just open honesty. And when you get the chance and the experience to do that, and feel that, well, there is my reward in life.

Just who would have thought back in 1975 that they would ever see John Lydon singing karaoke?

Me (laughter). I have always had a huge record collection and I tend to sing along with it, whenever I like the tunes and particularly if I like the words. That’s most probably how I learnt to un-sing. I am a human being after all, and we mustn’t forget this (laughter).

Are you still collecting vinyl records?

I try to, but as you know, there are less and less things out there to collect nowadays. There are so many collectors out there now, that they are kind of ruining it. So, I no longer collect as a collector, I simply buy what I like, and that doesn’t have to be well played, or well sung, just so long as it is honest about itself and I like it, then I am in the market (laughter).

PiL’s forthcoming UK tour has thirteen dates in June. Does touring still excite you?

It terrifies me. There is a lot of hard work that goes into it and that is all good enough. I have a dreaded fear of letting people down before I trot onto that dreaded stage. However, I suppose that it is an enlightening experience because it reminds you that you are in face fallible (laughter). And let me tell you, that’s a fucking hard one to come to grips with night after night (laughter).

Writing, recording, performing, which one do you prefer?

That’s easy, that would be the writing. In fact, I am writing all of the time, plus I read all the time and that’s why my eyes have gone. That’s all down to me burning the midnight oil, but before you ask, not in any celebratory way it’s just me writing out lyrics. It’s just the way that it is; I try to write down as many of the thoughts that I have had during the day. Of course, you never remember it exactly, just what that great idea was, so I find writing to be an uphill climb. It is the easiest of all the processes, but then translating it into music, ah now there’s a chore (laughter). You need some good bloody loyal fans in order to do it properly with, and luckily for me, that’s just what PiL is.

If there is a mood in a note and I think that I just might have something that goes with that, we all know and feel that same vibe. We will then try to torture the songs or tunes into these emotions. There are some songs that can be heart-breaking to perform live. To this day I still perform it and Death Disco is vitally important to me, there is life’s blood there. It deals with the sadness at the loss of my parents. I don’t think that I will ever get over that. I don’t understand death and I don’t want to in a Gothic sense either. It is a chore and three quarters because you are never satisfied with the way that you end up sounding when you hear it played back to you. All of my life I have fancied myself as a bit of a Roy Orbison; what a fucking let down (laughter).

PiL have now released ten albums, as well as the material that you made with the Sex Pistols, is it getting harder for you to put a set list together for the forthcoming tour?

Oh God, yes because the library just keeps on expanding. Having said that, that is not a problem, it’s more like ‘what a relief’ because I am overwhelmed for choice (laughter). Of course, there are certain songs which we could never do live because it simply would not be possible, they are just too fast, too up-tempo, and they will exhaust you for the rest of the set. You really do have to balance these things out; you can’t run at it at one hundred miles per hour from the off, because you will never finish the race.

Without giving too much of the game away, what can we expect on the forthcoming tour?

Oh, that’s easy, you can expect a wonderful world of dreariness, self-pity; the bar will of course be full, where we will all be drowning our sorrows (laughter). Honestly, and being serious for a while, it will be a rollercoaster of emotions. The most amazing thing for me is the eye contact with the audience, because believe it or not, I am a naturally shy person, but I get to lock eyes and you can tell that they really do appreciate just what it is that you I am doing. They rev you up into a harder and harder height to reach, and that is a truly amazing gift. People open heartedly sharing something with you and egging you on if that be the correct term, to do better and better.

There is the joy of it; that is the purpose of Public Image, it always has been, other than way back when with PiL in the very early days, there were some sad sacks up there (laughter). However, we had better not dwell on them because I honestly feel that this current incarnation of PiL is the best that has ever existed. First and foremost, we are friends, and then we create music together. For me, it is the friendship element which counts way above the musicianship; way above it. And good music to me comes from friendlier attitudes and it has taken me years to experience the difficulties of dealing with such animosity on a daily basis. That’s how it has been with some of the bands that I have been in.

Will there be any new material on the set list?

No, simply because that would open us up to a breach of our copyright, and we would never ever do that. We did that once many years ago now, and it ended up being sold on bootlegs and that was unfortunate because it was a total waste of a song. Until songs are properly recorded and published, there is no chance of me ever being that stupid ever again. Even though our audiences are always nice and pleasant to us, it has been noted that they do like to record the gigs on their cell phones (laughter). The naughty buggers (laughter).

You mention the audience recording the songs at PiL gigs on their cell phones, just how does that make you feel?

Being totally honest with you, that really does piss me off. I have to tell you that there is nothing more irritating than somebody trying to stick a phone in your face, while you are trying to deal with serious subjects on stage and trying to concentrate and do the very best that you can for everybody in the hall. Its distracting and its idiotic, because while you are centred on your little gadget, you are missing the reality of real life right there in front of you, and I can’t imagine a more stupid thing to do; “look, here’s the concert that I recorded, I missed it myself, but I’ve got it here on my phone” (laughter). You dumb fuck (laughter).

And let’s face it; the quality is not that good anyway.

(Laughter) I know but they seem to be more distracted, the technology has turned them into robotic idiotics. That sounds like a good title for a song (laughter).

Has it not been done before by Kraftwerk?

We are the Robots De De De De De (laughter). Perhaps you are right on that. I know those fellas, and little did they know what they were doing and just what it would turn into. They are not like that Kraftwerk image at all, they really are blokes who like to go around in Hawaiian shirts and they are all secretly long-haired (laughter). Originally, they were quite innovative, but now, it really is quite boring.

I know what you mean, I saw them live just prior to lockdown, and I have to ask just who wants forty odd minutes of Trans Europe Express? (laughter).

Well, I’m with you on that one; I really do draw the line at that. I would much rather take the real train journey (laughter). There would be something for me to look out of the window at, wouldn’t there (laughter). I’m just that kind of a sensible fella.

You have been in the music business for almost fifty years now. Have you enjoyed it so far?

No (laughter). It seems to me that I have never had a childhood and I simply went straight into the wonderful world of music, as he laughingly coins a well-known phrase (laughter). Looking back, it has been difficult, it has been a struggle, it has been harsh at times, and I have met a lot of very vindictive and spiteful bitter jealous and twisted people, so I would not say that it has been a pleasure at all. The only real joy that I get is when I met a handful of celebrities who have turned out to be decent after all, which was a major surprise. And, of course, the audiences themselves, which are always like a good slice of humanity, playing on the fair side. That’s the reward of it but boy, the indulgencies that you have to tolerate from the elite, shall we call them that.

The superstars who want to turn up at your gigs and who demand a backstage area for themselves. I simply reply, “fuck off, we don’t want you here” (laughter). It can become very ugly because, as you know, we like playing festivals as well as the intimacy of small halls, but the majority of the bands that we have met at festivals all seem to be so stuck up and snobby. It outrages me the amount of hatred that they generate not only towards themselves, but to everyone else. It really is pretty damn disappointing. There are very few people from bands that I can honestly hold my hands up and say, “there a good ‘un”, the good ‘uns know who they are because I have told them. The bad ones, they know who they are too as I have told them as well (laughter).

We all know that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Looking back would you have done things differently?

Well, what can I say, if you have got eyeballs on your arse then that’s a great thing (laughter). I don’t look back and say, “oh, if only” but what I tend to do is go, “oh shit” and learn from my mistakes. If I have misunderstood something, I can actually change my perception. I am always open to listening, and hearing what other people have to say. If they are right then I will quite happily accept that. You have got to be able to behave like that in order to survive as a human being. You can’t go around being woke your whole life otherwise you will never wake up if that’s your case.

PiL Official Limited, does that work better for you than it would if you were signed to a major label?

Oh absolutely. The rules and regulations and the sheer entrapment of somebody else holding onto the purse strings, and that somebody else being a corporation, that is a pretty fucking hard line for you to have to endure. They are constantly on your back trying to alter your perceptions, saying “well you know I’m sure that this is a novelty of an original that will improve the whole world Johnny, but could you just write a pop song” (laughter). That really is the sort of scenario that you are faced with every day when you are dealing with a large label. The obvious answer is, “I have written many of them. Haven’t you been noticing that’s why I’m on your label” (laughter).

That is the kind of conversation that we no longer have to have anymore. We are our own bosses and God; we like it that way. Don’t get me wrong, whenever we are in the studio and something doesn’t feel right, then we will verbally tear into each other. Have no doubt about that. We have had many of those, get the hairs on your back bristling events (laughter) but God, they have been so overwhelmingly positive, the results of those confrontations. I feel that they are really necessary. It really is a difficult thing to create. It makes you hypersensitive, and so the slightest thing can set you off, dare I say someone not putting the toilet seat down or up, depending upon your motivations (laughter).

It is well known that you are a lover of all things Reggae, so I have to ask you, what did you think to a certain John Joseph Wardle’s (Jah Wobble) interpretation of PiL’s Metal Box which he released as Metal Box – Rebuilt In Dub?

(Hysterical laughter) why did he need to do that? That is my plain and simple question to John. It’s like, ‘haven’t you got anything of your own’ (laughter). John is my mate and I love him and all of that but, why would you want to imitate yourself?

I have to be totally honest with you and say that I personally think that it’s awful.

Don’t get me started as I’m most definitely not going there (laughter).

I can’t talk to you without mentioning the Sex Pistols and in particular the Danny Boyle Mini-series.

Okay, let’s try to put the elephant in the room to bed once and for all.

The Disney Corporation, Universal Music, Danny Boyle, and the other three remaining members of the Sex Pistols, they all knew about the mini-series. Why do you think that you were intentionally kept out of the loop and why they all conspired to keep you in the dark?

Honestly, I have absolutely no idea, but they all spent an awful lot of money to ensure that I would be kept out of this which resulted in a ridiculous court case, which I personally wasn’t seeking. The first time that I heard anything about the project was in January, and five days later it was being advertised all over the internet. They are all telling me that it is not about the Pistols, it is supposedly about Steve Jones, and yet in the publicity hype they are using a picture of me and Nora. They have continued to use my photos and my character in order to sell this piece of crap. But, during all of this, no one has made any kind of effort whatsoever, and up until this point I have not seen a script. I have not spoken to any of them, nothing has been shown to me, and nothing has been offered to be shown to me.

That kind of hatred and fear and a need for secrecy, really underpins the fact that this is a bad event all round. If you are going to ostracise from your lovely project the main man who wrote all of those songs for you, and then celebrate your big bad selves, then I think that you should be remembering the four years that you knew one another before you met me, when you did fuck all, and you have all done fuck all ever since (laughter). I am most shocked and disappointed with Danny Boyle, jumping on board, going along with that, keeping everything away from me nonsense. It appears that he was recruiting actors, writing scripts, planning the whole thing, all done without one word to me. And the fact that they could do that using the record company and Disney Corporations money, the whole operation was just a conniving contrivance.

It has been widely publicised that you lost the court case. Just what does that mean to you? How has in affected you?

Well, the end result of me losing the court case to The Disney Corporation is that the Sex Pistols have now turned into a Mickey Mouse Production. They all block vote me on everything, so quality, truth, details, facts, and respect for the audience; that has all gone out of the window. They are now on a mad dash campaign to sell everything, in whatever way that they can without any regard to quality or control. It is pretty damn reckless; it is very much like a runaway truck, and it is awful. Some of the products that they are connecting up with in the name of the Pistols, really are hideous. I would like yourself and everyone out there to know that I am no longer a part of this fiasco.

What was once great and good about the Sex Pistols, these fucking oafs have taken away. So, there is a deadline; when the hammer was dropped against me in court, from that day on, it ceased to be the Sex Pistols.

It is clear for everyone to see that you are angry, but when we think of John Lydon we automatically think of someone who is robust and who doesn’t give a shit about what anyone thinks. Has all of this hurt you?

Oh yes, very much, very much indeed particularly Mr Cook. He knew damn well just how ill my wife was and he has the nerve to come to PiL gigs. He could have told me about this at any point, and we could have sat down and had an open discussion. But instead of that they took the point of view of negativity against me because they all thought that anything that I might have to say would be judged as being destructive to the plan in hand. Well, if that is the case, and everything that I have ever done is destructive what the fuck are you dancing in it for then?

I interviewed Paul (Cook) on Tuesday 12^th March 2020 and he stated categorically that he would never be involved with anything Pistol’s from that day forward and, as you know, I record all of my interviews.

(Hysterical laughter) well what can I say to that; hello (laughter). It’s very funny that considering that his name was on the court papers. He is most definitely one of the people who sued me. I think that declares rather wonderfully that is a good example of his true nature. It’s a horrible thing but these people can lie to your face, and they have absolutely no qualms about it.

Had you been approached in a correct and proper manner, and had been given more time to digest everything, would your response have been any different?

Well, who knows, it might have been a great project. At least it would have been truthful; I can guarantee you that if I had been a part of it. In fact, it might have been very, very, very excellent indeed. But they chose this avenue of subterfuge, and I can never forgive them for that. I will never forget it, because what they are currently playing for an audience is simply plain wrong. I can’t see it as anything less than a work of evil and Danny Boyle should know far better than that. It really does look badly on him, I think. I think that this project has put a really bad smear on him. If he wants to get into character development, and he is avoiding the main character then he is a fucking charlatan.

You have been quoted as saying that “the other members of the Sex Pistols are nothing more than deadwood.” Is that how you feel?

No as actually I have got a much better phrase for them, I now refer to them as, “rats sinking their own ship” as I feel that suits them far better don’t you (laughter).

You have mentioned that Glen (Matlock) did not sign the court papers. Can we read anything into that?

Yes, you can, that is Glen being as non-committal as ever. Glen is in it for the money and that’s all there is to it (laughter). For all of his socialism Glen is a very greedy boy. I don’t like to do character assassinations, but Glen never got over the fact that I said, “if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck” (laughter). Unfortunately, Glen took that personally.

Can you ever see a point in the future when you could reconcile the current situation?

The easy answer to that is no. The honest truth behind that answer is that I do not want to. They have now all gone from me and my life. They have ceased to exist by their own suicide. Don’t get me wrong, I truly wish that wasn’t the case, but it is, and that is never going to go away. They have done things that not only hurt me, but they have hurt my wife too.

Looking back, did you ever think that people would still be talking about the Sex Pistols; still buying the album some forty-five years later?

No, but I am so glad that they do (laughter). I don’t think that the bad attitude of these three should not really affect the pure honesty and content of that record. I really did put my heart and soul into it; in fact it was my mind and body actually. That album contains work that I am immensely proud of. I wrote those songs, and that is my imagery that is being used and I still have pure enjoyment in that. It is this modern re-writing of history is where it is going wrong. That does not take away from the true history no matter what their mockumentary purports; it will not be true, and I think that a lot of people will know that.

Can I honestly ask you a question, of course you’ve got great enjoyment out of the album, I do too, even now, but I honestly cannot say that I am listening to it because of the genius of Steve Jones, Paul Cook or Glen Matlock. And I say that in all honesty. Is that just a Johnny thing (laughter).

What I was going to say is that it still makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and I am sure that people in another forty-five years will still be listening to it.

Yes, they will because it is straight, bang, clear, dead ahead. It is good old-fashioned rock and roll exactly as it should be.

Putting you on the spot, when you joined the Sex Pistols, did you and Malcolm (McLaren) have the same agenda?

No, I had no clue as to what Malcolm’s agendas were and to be totally honest with you, I could not care less. I just thought that he was this freaky, undercurrents of gay suspect about him bloke, who wore fishnet tights over his leather pants (laughter). Malcolm really was a rather confused fella. Basically, he was, in all honesty, a bit of a coward who loved the celebration of chaos, just so long as he wasn’t going to be arrested for it. That is not me putting him down at all, that is fair play, and he would always run away from issues. That was the way that his nature was. I just think of him as being the bloke who borrowed us twenty-five quid so that we could go and play somewhere. That was the cost to hire a van and for us to drive up north (laughter).

I recently interviewed Midge Ure and he was telling me how Malcolm once tried to talk him into becoming the singer with the Sex Pistols whilst sitting in the back seat of a limousine that was being driven around Glasgow. Were you aware of that?

He most probably did (laughter). Firstly, Malcolm tried to replace me with himself; he even took singing lessons, which I found out about in a scurrilously sort way, through gossip and innuendos in his office. The staff in his office could not wait to tell me. That did not work out too well because he simply couldn’t commit to it. So yes, of course they were approaching other people; they really were furious at me (laughter). If you go back to the interviews at that time, all of them have adopted the attitude that I ruined the band. They would have been a really big supergroup but for me.

What were your aims and ambitions with the band?

Cor, at last (laughter). I had never thought of being in a band, ever, but I really did like writing and reading, and so by joining the Sex Pistols I got an outlet for my writing immediately. A button triggered in my head favourably like, ‘now you can write to this’ and let me tell you, that was much more fun. It made much more sense to me; my words were now blending with tones and sounds. That, to me, was thrilling in the extreme, that’s how I could write, and so that’s what I did. So, from that day on, I have expanded my knowledge in all directions.

I know that deep down you are a very private and personal person, but I have to ask you, are you still a rebel?

(Hysterical laughter) let me take a minute to remember that famous Marlon Brando line, ‘what have you got, well we can’t rebel against that then’ (laughter). Then you have the other kind, a rebel without a clue (laughter). Either of those two activities appeals to me. What I tend to do nowadays is to stand up for the people who are being treated unfairly, the disenfranchised. What makes me really angry is, whenever I see people being stolen from, or being treated wrongly or even being murdered, all of these things. As for, ‘oh look there is a demonstration on Saturday, let’s go and rebel’ then the answer is no (laughter).

I am like you; I try to help and assist those people who don’t have a voice.

There you go, bloody hell, if there is a God then he gave me the voice to do exactly that. I have always been a bit of a helper anyway, since I was well young, with my mum being ill all of the time. It was left to me to raise my brothers and get them off to school. I was doing that from five years old onwards. That is my natural way. I found that out incredibly early in my life, my role is one of a bit of a care giver. That is how I write, and that is why those lyrics are the way that they are. I don’t do it for rewards or gifts, or acknowledgement even; I don’t need these things, I simply get the personal enjoyment of knowing that I have managed to help someone who needs help and I think that comes over in all of my songs.

You have been quoted as saying that you feel guilty at bringing Sid (Vicious) into the Sex Pistols. Is that still the case and is there anything else which you regret?

No, there really is not anything else that I regret. I stressed the emphasis on Sid simply because I was asked at the time, and it ended up in a documentary. I didn’t quite understand that throwing Sid in at the deep end, the Sex Pistols were already an ongoing force at that time, just how hard on him that would be. The lad had a Cantiga album so I assumed that he could play (laughter). I should have found out differently before I bought him in the group. I really should have taken into account the pressure that he was under back then. I should also have taken into consideration that his mother was a registered heroin addict. I simply was not connecting the dots.

So yes, I do feel guilty about that, and I think that I was being selfish too. Looking back, I think that all that Sid was looking for was a friend in the band, and that was a situation which we didn’t have. Right from the start they were always, the lot of them, they were always against me. And that goes back before anything. I was always seen as this annoyance that Malcolm bought along. But, as I said earlier, they were going nowhere, and they have gone nowhere since. They don’t seem to understand that and that is a real shame

Do you ever regret not recording more material with the Sex Pistols?

I should have taken soft hammers with me into rehearsals (laughter). I honestly feel that would be the only way for me to get some common sense into them. It’s a joke but at the same time it is really sad. It’s like, ‘hang on, this bloke is actually doing something that is really good for you so get on with him’ (laughter). But not these oafs, they went off in the opposite direction, and that deep rooted and suspect jealousy really, is the bottom word on it, is so very hard to understand for me. I simply cannot comprehend people being so evil, but the sad truth of it is they are.

You say that you are writing every day. Is that where you find your enjoyment and satisfaction?

Yes, I do. Having said that, it is painfully fucking harsh on me sometimes, but you really have to get into the deep, dark, deep inside things that are really upsetting you. A lot of it is just all fluff, so you have to weed out the good from the bad. There are very few people that I have worked with, up until this current PiL line-up, who actually understood that. They are all like that with their own little areas too; I have converted them all into deep thinkers, and it just works better.

Is there another book inside you waiting to see the light of day?

Well, as long as I live, I will fucking carry on writing (laughter). And it is usually good enough to talk about (laughter). I can’t help that, my live is a natural fiasco really; it is full of difficulties, trials and tribulations. It is a bit of an endurance course really, again I use the term God, for want of a better term, the energy force. It’s like I’m being tested, just as I get myself comfortable and I am enjoying doing this, I think that I will sit outside on the lawn and write a song (laughter). That’s the day that a bomb will drop on the fucking house (laughter). There is something at the back of my mind that says, “don’t get out of your pram Mr Rotten” and I feel that has always been there (laughter).

Does living in Los Angeles suit you?

Yes, because all of those illness’ that I am very prone to, together with respiratory disease of any kind. It shocks me to tell you the truth that I didn’t contract Covid-19, I’m floored by that because the book tour alone, the amount of meet and greets and people running up and kissing me, sitting on my knee like Father Christmas, and I never caught anything. Well I am the most prone person that I know; I have had pneumonia, really serious attacks of bronchitis, and I will always get all of these things whilst I am in England, but I simply do not get them over here in LA LA land (laughter). I manage to maintain a good, natural, healthy life over here; I’m not suffering from mould in a basement (laughter).

Would you ever consider coming back to live in the UK?

Of course, but only when I tour (laughter). I would never come back to the UK to live, it’s changed, I think, for the worse. I simply do not recognise the inner-city anymore, I really don’t. I’m firmly with John Cleese on that, in that London doesn’t feel like London anymore. I don’t know what it feels like but it’s not working. It has become a very unpleasant knife fighting area filled with ludicrous drugs that do not work (laughter).

How would you like to be remembered?

I assume that you mean on my tomb stone, well that would have to be ‘not here’ (laughter) or better still ‘this space for rent’ (laughter).

I love the Spike Milligan one, ‘I told you I was ill’ (Laughter).

(Laughter) I like that but there is a W. C. Fields one which I absolutely love, it’s, ‘Thank God it’s not Philadelphia’ (laugher). That’s where he was from.

Now do forgive me, but I am going to quote your lyrics to you.

That is okay, go for it.

In Public Image you actually sing “I will not be treated as property.” However, in view of recent events do you still think that is the case?

Well, what can I say, that is the attempt. I am taking every possible opportunity to stop that, loud and clear. And thank God by talking to people like you I am being given that opportunity because quite frankly, I am up against several corporations that were all out to character assassinate me, in order to achieve their greedy ambitions and that is a difficult position to be in. I have to fight for myself here because things are already being twisted. I can see it happening already out there, by the corporate media. They are already spinning it into me being a self-pitying or whatever angle they want to use against actual reality.

And I have to be honest with you and say, “that is fucking hard to cope with” it really is. On top of being a full time carer for my wife, I have to struggle to keep the band going, I have to find new opportunities out there in order to do other things as well to maintain the lifestyle that Nora needs. Care giving is damn expensive and there isn’t any National Health out here. I get no help at all, so I have got to be able to help myself. The putdowns are already coming, and that is unfortunate. I think that the only way that they can promote this pseudo-documentary, mockumentary, whatever you want to call it, is to tell lies about me.

Are you watching it?

Yes, I am, I am watching it whilst going through it with a fine-tooth comb. It can’t be based on the truth simply because they have deliberately ignored me, as has been planned from day one of the project.

I personally do not know anyone who could take on The Disney Corporation and win.

You can’t, you really can’t. They have got several actions ongoing over here in America, in fact they have actions here in America all of the time actually.

The last time that I was over there in Florida, all of the staff were on strike because The Disney Corporation were refusing to hire gay people.

Well, that’s interesting because now they have gone the other way; they have gone completely woke, and they now want fifty percent of their cartoons to feature gay people specifically (laughter). When you start thinking about these swings of opinion, you have just ruined what life is all about. Diversity does not need orchestration from any corporation, diversity occurs naturally. I don’t want to see people employed in the future working with these kinds of statistics. One percent psychopaths, you have got to have them, handbag snatchers, there are plenty of them so what shall we say, twenty percent. We will have some of them in there on the board. And on and on and on you go.

It rapidly gets far too ridiculous, if you are qualified then that is all that should be needed. I have got to say that all of the voices that pushed for this are all now coming out of those universities, the ideology of a higher education and further education, has been swept aside, for some kind of Marxist, political manipulation. It is really all about destroying common sense and wrecking society. You know that I hate the system, but I want to repair it, fix it, make it better; I do not just want to outright destroy it. If you destroy it then you will end up as you do with all of these kinds of philosophies, with a guy like Putin in charge. And they are marching so readily, like lemmings to the cliff.

On that note John, let me once again thank you for taking the time to speak to me today, it been absolutely great, as usual. You stay safe and I will see you here in Nottingham.

That was, as usual, a really good chat Kevin, thanks for that. I really did enjoy it as you always manage to make me laugh. Make sure that you come and say hello when we get to Nottingham. Bye for now.

John Lydon, lead singer with Public Image Ltd chats with Kevin Cooper about his friendship with Engelbert Humperdinck, being banned by the BBC for his comments about Jimmy Saville, the release of their box set with its live film footage and their forthcoming 40th anniversary tour of the UK.

John Lydon, also known by his stage name Johnny Rotten, is an English singer, songwriter and musician. He is best known as the lead singer of the late 70s British punk band the Sex Pistols, which lasted from 1975 until 1978, and again for various revivals during the 1990s and 2000s. He is also the lead singer of post-punk band Public Image Ltd (PiL), which he founded and fronted from 1978 until 1993, and again since 2009 with a different line up.

With the Sex Pistols, he penned singles including Anarchy In The U.K., God Save The Queen, and Holidays In The Sun. The band caused a nationwide uproar in much of the media, and Lydon was seen as a figurehead of the burgeoning punk movement. Despite their controversial lyrics and style at the time, they are now regarded as one of the most influential acts in the history of popular music.

Whilst Public Image Ltd were never as controversial or commercially successful as the Sex Pistols, the band have produced eight albums and a string of singles, including Public Image, Death Disco, and Rise, before they went on hiatus in 1993, reforming in 2009. In subsequent years, Lydon has hosted television shows in the UK, America and Belgium, appeared on I’m a Celebrity…Get Me Out of Here! And has also appeared in advertisements promoting a brand of British butter, written two autobiographies Rotten: No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs and Anger Is An Energy and produced some solo musical work, including the album Psycho’s Path. In 2005, he released a compilation album, The Best of British £1 Notes.

Whilst busy preparing for his forthcoming tour, he took some time out to have a chat with Kevin Cooper and this is what he had to say.

Mr Lydon good morning.

Hello Kevin from Nottingham, how the devil are you?

I’m very well thank you, how are you today?

Everything considered dear boy, I couldn’t be better (laughter).

Before we move on let me just thank you for taking the time to speak to me today.

(Laughter) I think that you should wait until we are nearly finished before you thank me; you just never know (laughter).

Exactly, exactly (laughter). Well I have to tell you that you and I have met many years ago.

Oh yes?

Yes, way back in 1977 I was a policeman here in Nottingham and I was fortunate enough to spend the day with you in the Nottingham Magistrates Court during the ‘Never Mind The Bollocks’ hearing.

Really, oh that is fantastic. Did you have a good day?

I did but not as good as yours (laughter).

That’s right, I did get a bit of a result didn’t I (laughter). You weren’t the fresh-faced fucker with a copy of the album under his arm who kept asking me for my fucking autograph were you?

Of course I was (laughter).

(Laughter) how funny; what a small world.

Very small indeed. So just how is life treating John Lydon at this moment in time?

Well what can I say, everything is good here in sunny Los Angeles. It is starting to get quite warm here. However, I have to tell you that only a few days ago it was like winter on the Norfolk Broad’s (laughter). It’s all a case of swings and roundabouts, no matter where you are.

Just taking you back to 1978 for a moment if I may, after all of the furore in relation to the album title, do you think that things here in the UK have moved on at all?

Yes it has, it most definitely has. When they started sneaking swear words onto Chanel 4 and then quickly taking them away again, it all became really childish. To me it’s like, they are just words to be used correctly or incorrectly. If they are used wrongly then it makes a fool out of the user. Let them by all means stand up and be foolish. There is no harm in a word. However, there can be a lot of harm in the implication or the use as a direct threat. Ban threatening behaviour by all means but not words.

Now we have to speak about Public Image Ltd.

Must we (laughter).

Yes we must. I have been given my instructions and that is what we must speak about.

Oh alright then (laughter).

You formed the band some forty years ago now. Did you intend it to be here for the long-haul or has it surprised you?

(Laughter) what can I say, back then when I was younger, I had no concept of longevity. To be honest with you I got held up there for fifteen years in the middle of it because of record company manipulation which was a very ugly position to find myself in. I was somehow in debt due to the contracts that originated out of the Sex Pistols era and it was very difficult to break free of them. So there was a huge hiatus, I think is the word, when it was least necessary. That kind of screwed around with my head for a while so I went into a place where I was raising my wife Nora’s grandkids. That was fun (laughter). There were lots of Parent Teacher Association meetings and then back to PiL again (laughter).

What would you say has been your favourite period of Public Image Ltd?

I would have to say that it would most probably be this period right now. The last ten years have been hyperactive, very risqué, taking all manner of chances as to whether it would sink or swim, and we are finding that it is swimming. Musically, we are as experimental as ever and we are fully prepared to go to madhouse places if that’s where our brains take us. And at the same time, we like to find the time to enable us to explore pop sensibilities. So long as we are doing our things and they are things that we believe in then this will continue. The minute it isn’t then we shall stop.

Now I have to pick your brains…

I haven’t got any (laughter)…

…now that simply is not true (laughter)

…well they are in my foot so you can pick my toe (laughter)

Other than it being career–spanning what can you tell me about the forthcoming box set?

Oh well what can I say other than it is a magnificent piece of work and it is something that we all put a lot of effort into. It has got over six hours of live film footage in it, which makes it officially longer than a Grateful Dead gig (laughter). Also in there are a bunch of what I think are wonderful songs which fully explain the width, breadth and scope of Public Image Ltd.

How many tracks are on there?

A lot (laughter).

Were you solely responsible for choosing what songs made it into the collection?

Oh yes. This isn’t the record company fiddling about. We are independent now and so we can dictate our own terms.

You are going back out on the road again with The Public Image Is Rotten Tour. Does touring still excite you?

I love it, I really, really love it. If there was any problems with it, I simply wouldn’t do it. What I love the most about it is touring with this current band, the way we are and how well we know each other; it is true companionship. There is a great sense of empathy between us. This may surprise you but we are all very good friends. As you rightly point out, we are going back out on tour. We are very happy to do that because from the touring we raise the money to enable us to record. And in fact we are going to be doing some recording in the middle of this tour. The only downside to that is that there will be no days off for us. But then again, every day is full-on and I like to be on (laughter).

Being friends as well as bandmates must really make a pleasant change for you?

You are totally right, yes it does. I have always wanted a band that were friends and have always thought that a band should be friends and low and behold I picked well this time (laughter). I have known Bruce (Smith) and Lu (Edmonds) since forever really and Scotty (Scott Firth) just fits in au natural. They are all just totally regular people, but all of them are very different from myself. I think that it is that variety that makes it work. I mean if we were all the same person, oh my god, there is no way that I would go on tour with me (laughter). I’m just not having it (laughter). Imagine waking up to yourself every morning, imagine there being three of you, “how are you, I’m doing alright, how’s me” (laughter).

The tour kicks off at the O2 in Bristol on Wednesday 30^th May. Will the box set be available before then?

I hope so, I really do hope so but I wouldn’t save up all my money and spend it on the two things on the first day (laughter). My message to all of the music fans out there is simple, bide your time (laughter).

You will be playing here in Nottingham at Rock City on Friday 29^th June, what can we expect?

Well what can I say, I imagine that you can expect a fabulous chunk of real up close and personal, solid, hard-core music (laughter). There will be no messing about; we are the real thing. There will be absolutely no trickery involved whatsoever. You have to remember that at Rock City the audience are less than three feet away from my eyeballs (laughter).

I have been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I recently photographed you at The Copper Rooms at Warwick University and I have to say that I made the mistake of getting in your eye line and you frightened the shit out of me (laughter).

(Laughter) did I really?

Yes you did. I was the only person in the pit, you beckoned me over and whispered in my ear ‘why don’t you fuck off’ (laughter).

(Hysterical laughter) did I really say that to you, well what can I say, I’m just trying to tell it like it is young lad (laughter).

Exactly (laughter).

It’s just that I simply didn’t believe in holding back (laughter). If you are going to express a true emotion then do it as honestly as you can. Thereby it becomes the real thing. I just hope that you didn’t smell my armpits, they are lethal (laughter). Were you wearing your policeman’s helmet at the time (laughter).

(Laughter) no not at all. In fact I never wear a hat because I never want to mess my hair up, it looks bad enough at the best of times (laughter).

Well you must have been blocking someone’s view which is usually what the police and security used to do back in those days. That would always annoy me. At the same time I am sensible enough to know that you weren’t keeping the audience from the band, you were keeping the band from the audience (laughter).

Is Rock City a must play venue?

Well I don’t know about that but it’s one that we are going to (laughter). What I always love and I always do this and have done it all through the years, is play small venues. I really love that intimate atmosphere. To me it reminds me of the old music halls or social clubs, and that is the thing that I grew up with and is the place where I am most comfortable. I don’t like big stadiums, I don’t like auditoriums; I will do the occasional festival but I prefer it to be up close and personal. I like people to be able to see just how bad I really am not (laughter). When you can connect with your audience, eyeball to eyeball, fantastic things happen.

In that situation and environment, you tend to become such a proper person. There is no need for any showing-off, so much so that I leave my ego in the dressing room, and come out as naked as the day that I was born really, metaphorically speaking (laughter). I wouldn’t dare inflict nudism on anyone, they would never get over it (laughter).

Is there anyone that inspires you?

My fellow human beings and there is every reason to continue because I really do feel that we are a wonderful creation. However, there are a few buttholes in there too but you know, you can’t talk shit if you don’t have a butt (laughter).

Does being involved in the music business today still excite you?

My aspect of it, and what we are currently doing then I would have to say yes. But you have to remember that we view ourselves as being somewhat outsiders of the shit storm as we call it. We always find ourselves trying to avoid the trap. I have personally avoided those traps all of my life and I have to say that I have paid dearly for it. There have been many record company collusions, together with all manner of downfalls and pitfalls. Anyone who stands up and thinks that they have got something righteous to say, is going to get an awful lot of smack down and you know, hello, I asked for it, I’m not complaining, I just wish that it was a little more enjoyable (laughter). Hello, last man standing.

What are your views on streaming and Spotify, do you think that they are killing the business?

Oh I hate those things, very much so. In fact the whole idea of music being out there on the internet is in fact my biggest gripe. To be honest it disgusts me. It is of such a low quality so what’s the point in going to any effort to produce a wonderful piece of music, only for it to be squashed down into a postage stamp, orally speaking. I’m sorry but I like the full width, breadth and depth of music. I like my bass to be way down there in the grumbly floorboards. And I like the tops to rip my head off together with a good midrange, thank you. You are not getting that anymore; what you are getting is a two-dimensional version of something. The drop in value is appalling. How can you treat people like that? Going to see a live performance I suppose is the only real clue that youngsters get that music really is better than that.

But the problem is, in my opinion, no one goes to a gig to listen to the music anymore. They go so that they can take the odd selfie or two, go into work on Monday and say to their colleagues “look who I went to see at the weekend”. Attending a gig nowadays has almost become a badge of honour.

Yes they do, you are perfectly correct. However, thinking about it I suppose that there is that element too but you will get that in all walks of life.

Especially at U2 concerts (laughter).

Well he is the biggest poseur of the lot isn’t he (laughter). Poor old Bozo (laughter).

Has anyone ever asked you if you know the difference between God and Bono?

No, go on.

Well God doesn’t walk around all day thinking he’s Bono (laughter).

(Hysterical laughter) that’s good, really good. I know Bono quite well and we always manage to have a laugh whenever we meet. Whenever I see him I always say “why don’t you layoff that Pope stuff” (laughter). The last time I saw him I said “how can you keep kissing the Popes hand, you kind of do know where it has just been” (laughter).

How did it feel knowing that you hand single-handedly changed the face of music?

Oh god, it weren’t me officer (laughter). I was asleep at the time and I am frightened of reprisals (laughter). I always say that if things happen, then they happen. I didn’t deliberately set out to do that but good for me if I did.

What I am trying to say is that after personally witnessing the massive impact that the Sex Pistols had on music worldwide, I am still waiting for the next explosion. In my opinion nothing has come along as yet.

Well it’s not my job to do that is it (laughter). I can’t do it for every generation. But I am kind of with you on this, as I had expected the younger generations to have a bit more get up and go in them but they just seem to go nowhere. At sixteen they want to grow a beard and wear a stupid bobble hat. It’s like looking at designer wear for farmers (laughter). What’s up with everybody, if you want to go for that look then get a tractor.

Looking back at 1978, the BBC banned you for the comments that you made about the late Jimmy Saville. In light of recent events, do you feel that you were let-down badly by the establishment?

Yes I do, I feel that I was let-down extremely badly by the establishment, very badly indeed. But then again most of them were all at it themselves weren’t they. They were all on the fiddle but in the wrong way. At that time molestation was part and parcel of the business. I knew it, in fact I knew it before I joined the Sex Pistols. Every kid did but yet that was all buried, brushed over and we were viewed as the filthy ones. What a fucked up world that was.

Do you feel that you have now been vindicated in any way?

No, not in any way, shape or form because it is what it is. I’m glad that it has been noted because I do tend to speak up. I don’t talk rubbish, I do tell the truth and that is my nature. And there it is, I can’t help it, sorry officers, I’m still asleep, honest (laughter). All of those bad things eventually came to light and I was proved right about what I had said but I went through murders for that. As you rightly say, I got banned from the BBC; they wouldn’t give me any airplay whatsoever, and they were really spiteful towards me and the band which had nothing to do with the music at all. They simply didn’t want my fresh, honest, view point in there. It’s a great tragedy and that’s censorship for you. Some years later I write a song about the whole experience called Acid Drops and there is a line in there which asks “who censors the censors” and I have to say that I do that myself, I make up my own mind like anyone else.

Did you have a plan B just in case music didn’t happen for you?

No, no, nothing at all really. It is just absolutely great that I landed so well. I didn’t even have a plan A to get into music, it all came along totally out of the blue, something along the lines of ‘do you want to sing in our band’ to which I replied ‘oh okay’ (laughter). I spent all of my early life avoiding the choir because I know all about priests and what they got up to, we all did. I would deliberately sing out of tune so that I wouldn’t get picked to sing in the choir. I became the most out of tune of the lot of us (laughter). Then to be expected to suddenly be in tune it was like ‘wow’ (laughter). What a fantastic career move that I got for myself. I had to be the exact opposite.

At that point I thought ‘no I don’t want to do that’, I didn’t want to sound like all of the other singers, so I decided that I would sing in the way that I think. And there it is, I am still there with that. It has some sense of values about it. That is what I got out of all of it, good honest values. That is what maintains me and keeps me in good health.

Have you enjoyed the ride or are there things that you would do differently?

No, I don’t think that anyone should ever suffer from hindsight. Yes of course, mistakes are made all the way along in life and what you have got to do is learn from them. In moments of grief you have got to absorb them and use them to your benefit. Experience is not an unhealthy thing.

Have you ever thought about going into politics and righting the wrongs from the inside?

No, never. There are far too many liars in government. How do you right the wrongs there when the entire system, to my mind, is wrong?

I have to say that I think that the system is at present badly broken.

Yes it is, it is very badly broken and everybody knows it. We are all in the world desperately looking for an alternative to this. I don’t think that revolution is the answer; the second that you have to kill another human being then you don’t have a cause with me, at all. Passive resistance is the methodology that I prefer and I always use the late Ghandi as my example. We do not need to go around killing each other, in fact we need to do the exact opposite. Why don’t we as the first step ban lying, don’t ban the words, ban the liars.

You should know by now that it isn’t a lie it’s merely an oversight (laughter).

Oh yes, of course (laughter).

The buzz phrase of 2016, ‘I’m sorry, it was an oversight’ (laughter).

(Laughter) in that case I guess that my immune system must be down.

You last released a solo album, Psycho’s Path, back in 1997. Are there any thoughts regarding any new solo work?

No, no thoughts whatsoever. That’s not to say that it won’t happen again but for now, there are no thoughts at all. I have to say that I did enjoy making that album, very much so, but in all honesty I did actually and totally miss being with the band. I missed being with a group of fellas who were creating in a unified way. I like the energy and the vibes that I get from the other people in the mix. Whenever I’m left to my own ideas I kind of like think ‘I’m just being a bit selfish here’ and to be honest I really don’t like that. The sharing is what I missed. Having said that there were some songs on that solo album that really had to be done alone. I knew that they were outside of everybody’s agenda really (laughter). It was kind of a clearing house for me, it enabled me to get some really anxious moments dealt with in those kind of songs.

If you could change one law within the English legal system, what would you change?

Judgements (laughter). I would try to put a stop on judgements but unfortunately I think that it is the one thing, particularly the pop mag, rag end of the media is very judgmental. They are all the time putting people down through acts of jealously or whatever. I dislike that, I dislike gossip, I would like to see that banned, other than that I can’t think of anything major except of course ‘don’t be buggering the children or you will get life imprisonment’ (laughter).

I hear that you are against the smoking ban in public places, is that correct?

(Laughter) who the fuck has told you that. Yes I am, I would most definitely bring back smoking in pubs, it’s ludicrous. That is absolutely so un-English of them. What’s wrong with going to the pub and sitting there with a beer and a ciggie in hand; that to me is perfection.

I totally agree with your sentiment but the truth of the matter is that there will soon be no pubs left here in the UK.

That’s right, you are absolutely right and the same is happening to live venues. Just what will there be left; the UK will soon be left looking like socialist Poland.

Just a thought, how about we all start drinking in the House Of Commons?

Oh yes, right, because they have still got that penny a pint thing going on haven’t they and about three pounds for a bottle a whisky (laughter). First in line (laughter). Maybe politics isn’t so bad after all (laughter). Actually, I kind of like the idea of keeping the buggers drunk (laughter).

I have heard that you have a rather special relationship with another ex-pat over there in California.

(Laughter) someone is going to get fired when I find out who has been talking to you (laughter). Yes I do and you will not believe me when I tell you that I am getting on so well with Engelbert Humperdinck. I really do like that fella. He is really open, honest and funny as fuck (laughter). He is great fun to sit and drink with. We sit for hours on end just trading stories. He is legendary to me, and there he is now, right in front of my eyes. I love taking the piss out of him and start singing The Anniversary Waltz (laughter). That bloke deserves his fame because he is a standout fella. It’s great to meet people like that, unexpectedly, and to be taken by surprise and to realise their greatness. They don’t have to be famous. This could be some old codger neglected in the corner of a pub. But once you get talking to them wow, the universe unfolds before you.

On the subject of friends, are you not very good friends with Stuart Pearce, the ex-player, Captain and Manager of Nottingham Forest?

(Laughter) yes I am, he’s fine him. He’s a good giggle that one. Nottingham Forest had told him that he couldn’t go out on this particular night but being as he is, he turned up at a Pistols gig and he bought along Gareth Southgate (laughter). But it was really good of him to do that and come to the gig, I like him. I can remember when Forest were in a cup final and he called himself Stuart Rotten (laughter). He dressed up, not in punk gear but in Public Image gear. He came to the gig dressed in the clothes that I was wearing around that time. It’s odd because I seem to have a lot of friends from the football world. I recently met Gordon Strachan the ex-Scotland manager and it really is bloody brilliant meeting all of these people. Ian Wright for example, he is a bang on sort bloke (laughter).

Well I have to tell you that Stuart has now moved on to The Stereophonics.

(Laughter) well, that just goes to show that there is no accounting for taste. They were quite good when they first started, I liked them. They came along at the right time, just when the world needed a hum along (laughter).

I thought that we had Coldplay for that (laughter).

Oh no, don’t, please don’t mention Coldplay. That’s bumbling along. I just don’t understand them. It’s nothing personal; it’s just that I feel like there is nothing in there. It all seems so lifeless.

In 2015 you released your autobiography, Anger Is An Energy: My Life Uncensored. Was that something that you felt you had to do or needed to do to get things off your chest?

I felt like I had to do it. It was there inside me from my childhood, the anger issue was something that the doctors convinced and recommended to my parents that they should keep me in a frame of anger really to bring back my memories. As a youngster I had meningitis and lost all of my memories. It took me four years to remember anything at all. I was like a zombie and I didn’t even know how to pick up a knife or a fork. I couldn’t do anything at all, and it was anger that bought me back. Ever since then I have used anger as a tool in the most positive way. Anger bought my personality back to me. So yippee for anger. People misuse the term and automatically think that it immediately resorts to violence. No, quite the opposite, it leads to a peaceful conclusion.

Testing your memory, what was the first record that you bought?

Well my mum and dad were always buying music but the very first record that I ever bought was Ruby Don’t Take Your Love To Town…

Kenny Rogers

Yes, the very same and I bought it because I liked the colours on the sleeve, it was all sky blue and claret and before you say anything, I know that they are West Hams colours but I did say that I liked the colours, and not the team (laughter). I do love that colour combination. And I have to say that I still do buy records simply because I like the covers. The artwork for me is an important a part as the music itself. I love all of it, the whole package.

However unfortunately, at this moment in time, there are not that many singles to buy out there are there?

That’s true, well there’s the sadness. Singles are vanishing too. I suppose that everyone is busy listening to their music in internet cafes, mocha chocolate (laughter).

Who did you first see performing live?

That’s easy, it was Cliff Richard. My mum and dad took me along to see him at The Finsbury Park Astoria when it was still a theatre. I was very young at the time, probably about four years old, and I remember the screaming of the girls hurting my ears. I was absolutely terrified. I kept asking my parents “why are they all screaming” as I thought that they were all in fear (laughter). I couldn’t hear anything of Cliff, just all of these girls screaming. To be honest it was a bit of a nightmare but I have never forgotten it. It was back in the days when Cliff still had a bit of a tough boy thing about him.

Including the curled up lip?

(Laughter) oh yes, I had totally forgotten about that, the curled up lip. As you will know it was later perfected by Billy Idol and Sid Vicious (laughter). The infamous lip curl (laughter). Anyway, I wouldn’t recommend that one.

What was the last song or piece of music that made you cry?

Oh argh misses (laughter). Where the hell did that come from (laughter). That would have been the Requiem Mass In D Minor by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. The version that I like the best is from the Stanley Kubrick film Barry Lyndon. I remember back when my father died, I have always had that record and I played it over and over again just to remind myself of him. There were pure tears. I think that it is probably an overly dramatic piece of music.

On that note John, let me once again thank you for speaking to me today, it’s been fantastic and I hope to be photographing you at Rock City on Friday 29^th June.

Thanks Kevin that was great. Please do make sure that you come backstage and say hello. I honestly do not do these things to be a stranger. It is a necessary thing for me to be able to put a face to an interviewer and you are a member of the press so there you go. I always put on the list that they have to let anyone who has interviewed me come backstage and meet me. It is important to me.

Thanks for that John because nine out of ten simply won’t do it.

Well you know me, I’m not nine out of ten on anything am I (laughter). You take care and I will see you in Nottingham.