Robin Campbell, (seen here in the centre), guitarist and songwriter with English reggae band UB40 chats with Kevin Cooper about the possibility of recording with Stevie Wonder, his ideal Christmas, their latest album UB45 and their 2024 45th Anniversary Tour of the UK.

Robin Campbell is a guitarist and songwriter with English reggae Band UB40.

Formed in 1978 in Birmingham, the band has had more than fifty singles in the UK singles chart and has also achieved considerable international success. They have been nominated for the Grammy Award for Best Reggae Album four times. They have sold more than 70 million records worldwide.

The original band members were Ali Campbell, Jimmy Brown, Earl Falconer, Yomi Babayemi (who left in 1979), Norman Hassan, Brian Travers, and Jimmy Lynn (who also left in 1979). Robin Campbell was invited to join the band after buying a guitar, he joined them in their jamming sessions.

The eight musicians decided to form a band and they called themselves UB40, a reference to an attendance card issued to claimants of unemployment benefits from the UK government.

There were a few changes to the band line-up with the inclusion of Mickey Virtue and Astro, but in the main for thirty years the line-up was stable. However, in 2008 Ali Campbell left the band followed by Mickey Virtue soon after, and Astro also left in 2014.

New band members include Laurence Parry, Martin Meredith, Matt Doyle, Ian Thompson, Gilly G and Jahred Gordon.

Whilst busy touring Robin Campbell took some time out to have a chat with Kevin Cooper and this is what he had to say.

Hi Robin, how are you?

Hi Kevin, I’m alright thanks mate, how are you?

I’m very well thank you, and I am just proving to you that you can’t avoid me and that you can’t hide from me (laughter).

Believe me. I’m trying (laughter).

Before we move on, let me firstly thank you for taking the time to speak to me today.

It’s not a problem mate, you and I always have a great time whenever we get to do this.

We do but let’s try to stay on track today (laughter).

Okay point taken (laughter).

And I have to ask, just how is Duncan?

He’s fine, physically you would never know that he had had a stroke, you just wouldn’t know. He doesn’t walk funny, he doesn’t talk funny, there is no drop in his face, or anything; you would never really know. Having said that, he doesn’t have the confidence that he used to have, which is the reason why he decided to stop. He just didn’t want to let anybody down, bless him. He was struggling trying to remember the lines of the songs. I sat with Duncan in the studio for a few months going through songs and things, and I have to say that personally, I thought that he was up for the job. I thought that he was doing a great job.

We set up an autocue so that he could follow the lyrics, just like the rest of us had been doing for many years. Let’s be totally honest and say that people are always forgetting lyrics (laughter). We have had that literally for years as a tool, but Duncan just decided that he wasn’t up for it anymore. He’s fine, he is really well, he is just like the old Duncan, and he seems to spend a lot of time playing snooker (laughter).

We have to talk about the current tour. I understand that you are recently back from Australia and New Zealand, how did it go down there?

Brilliant, it really was brilliant. We literally got some of the best reviews that we have ever had which is testament to just how good the band is sounding at the moment. The new people that we have got on board have given us a new lease of life, as Duncan did when he came onboard, some sixteen years ago now. But I have to say that it is even more so now with Matt Doyle, who is brilliant, who just fits in beautifully, and who is now writing songs. We also have a new guy on keyboards, Jahred Gordon from Jamaica, who has played with all manner of people, and we nicked him from Maxi Priest’s band (laughter).

When Maxi played with us, we became mates, and as they say, the rest is history and Jahred bless him, offered himself up (laughter). And I have to say that he is a very talented boy. He really is making a big difference, especially live. He played on our last record but the difference that he makes playing live is amazing. Plus, we have Gilly G of course, who has taken over the job that Astro was doing. And we also have Matt, my son, who is now on-stage doing backing vocals. So, that’s four new guys as well as the four old guys. We have had the horn section for some thirty years, and I have to say that we currently appear to be firing on all cylinders. And as I said, we have received the greatest series of reviews that we have seen in a very long time.

On the 9th November you played the Resorts World Arena in Birmingham. I have to ask, just how special are the Birmingham shows?

I have to be totally honest with you and say that the Birmingham shows are always special. It’s our home gig isn’t it, it’s always special. Last summer we played a home coming show, in Moseley because we hadn’t played in Moseley for donkey’s years. We were asked by the people who put the Mosley Jazz Festival together if we would do a show in the same venue, in the same location, in Moseley Park which is a private park. You have to be a resident of Moseley in order to be allowed into the Park. So, by way of celebrating 45 years they asked us if we would play a gig for them in Moseley, which we did, and I have to say that it was brilliant.

It was packed of course, and I have to say that it is always great to back in Birmingham, it is always wonderful, but I do have to say that it is also loaded with pressure and stresses because it is all friends and family (laughter). I always get a hundred phones calls before we play in Birmingham, saying “can you get me on the guest list” simply because everybody is trying to get tickets for friends and family. It’s hard because tickets are always very limited. In fact, we always find ourselves buying tickets off the promoters so that we can get more people in (laughter). So yes, the Birmingham gigs are great, but it is stressful leading up to the actual gig. Having said that, it is always fantastic whenever we play in Birmingham because its home you know and we are treated like home-coming heroes every time.

I have personally seen you play at Rock City, the Royal Concert Hall and the Motorpoint Arena here in Nottingham, so I have to ask, do you enjoy your time spent here in our fair city?

Yes, I do, and here we are playing the arena once again. Most of my sightseeing was done back in the early days but I have to say that I have noticed just how much Nottingham has changed over the years. Generally, I see airports, the insides of buses, the inside of venues, and the inside of hotels (laughter). It is as cold as that really. That’s just what touring is. However, you do it for the gigs, not for a holiday. Its work but it doesn’t feel like it. I have to own up and say that I personally find the travelling to be exhausting, serious, and stressful of course. It is exhausting but you do it for the shows and it is the shows that make everything worthwhile. It’s the shows that make us keep doing it really.

You have briefly mentioned the last album UB45. Were you happy with the fan’s reaction to the album?

Absolutely, it gave us our first top five album for years. The album also contained a special track for our blues fans, the Birmingham City fans, out there, which went straight to number one in the download chart, and I have to say that the reaction to the album really was fantastic. The thing is that we have had Matt Doyle with us for the past three years and I have to say that the fan’s reaction to him has been absolutely brilliant. The thing that fans say whenever you meet them after a show is how good he sounds singing the old stuff, singing the classic UB40 tracks, the tracks that the fans come to hear. They just love how he sounds singing those tunes.

As you know, Matt is a raging UB40 fan; he grew up on the music, he has been singing those songs since he was a toddler, he just fits in so well and sounds so good, so for us that was half the idea with the album. We wanted to show everyone who hadn’t been to see us live, just how good he sounded singing those old tunes, the classic UB40 tunes of the 80s. That’s the reaction that the fans have given us; they have been overwhelmingly supportive of Matt as a singer. As you know, the other half of the album is new material, and a couple of those songs Matt Doyle wrote as well. So, as you can see, he is contributing in every way.

Plus, he also brings youthful good looks to the band (laughter).

(Laughter) absolutely.

I have to say that I loved what you did with Brenton Wood’s 1967 track Gimme Little Sign. I thought that was fantastic. It’s an old youth club favourite from back in the day.

Absolutely, I still have the 7” vinyl from, as you rightly say, 1967. I have always loved that tune, and ironically it has always been on my list of songs to do. I’m sure that I have told you before that the list that I compiled for the original Labour Of Love album, was about two hundred songs long, and basically they were all from my personal record collection (laughter). Having said that, we all had a shared memory of all of those songs. I had a list of songs that we have dipped into over the years, for the Labour Of Love series, but then occasionally we would do a couple of covers as well. Matt actually came to me and said, “I have heard this brilliant song on YouTube, its great and I think that we could do a brilliant version” (laughter).

When he told me what it was, I was totally dumbfounded because obviously it was recorded twenty odd years before he was born, and I was just shocked that he had picked that tune, and it was in my record collection (laughter). I told him that track had been on my list of songs to cover because I thought that we could do a brilliant version as well. He said, “that’s brilliant, can we do it then” (laughter). And that was it, it seemed like karma. So that became one of the songs that we were going to cover together with Bill Withers’ Hope She’ll Be Happier from 1971. The Bill Withers track was also a little weird as well because it is one of Jimmy Browns favourite tunes (laughter).

It is Jimmy’s favourite Bill Withers tune, and again Matt said, “do you know that one by Bill Withers, I’d love to cover that” (laughter). It was just really weird that his taste in music coincides so much with ours. These are obviously again, all songs that were recorded a long time before he was around so, it’s wonderful that Matt is finding these tunes and suggesting that we could cover them.

Whenever anyone comes to you with a potential cover, does that have to go to the committee or is it down to your good self?

(Laughter) you should know by now that we do everything by committee really (laughter). We are the most democratic band, that’s why everything takes too long; we discuss, then argue. I have in the past put together lists of songs for the Labour Of Love series, every time I always go back to my list, select tunes and say, “what do you think of these” and occasionally, if they don’t work, don’t get me wrong the band will always try them, but if we don’t think that it is working, or we are not doing it justice, then we will drop it. But I have to say that doesn’t happen very often. Generally, whatever is on my list, the guys do a good job covering it.

Just like when I am putting a set list together for tours they might have the odd comment or the odd suggestion, but basically, they leave me to it without much complaint because they know that I have been doing it for a long time and they trust me to do the job. It’s just like I don’t tell Jimmy how to drum, so its horses for courses. It makes life so much easier if we allow each other to do what we do, which allows us to get things done slightly quicker (laughter). But in answer to your question, yes, the committee is still involved and always will be.

Picking you up on what you said about set lists, just how hard is it for you to put a set list together for a tour?

It’s a bloody nightmare (laughter). When you have recorded three hundred songs or whatever it is, it really is difficult. Obviously, it is very easy to know what songs we have to play, because even the casual fans who come along that may have only bought one or two albums over the years, they have come to hear those songs, songs like Red, Red, Wine, Can’t Help Falling In Love, Kingston Town, and One In Ten; these are the tunes which you have to play. If you didn’t then they would get upset. I totally understand that, and I have to say that I totally agree with it. If I go and see an artist that I have been listening to for years, then I want to hear the songs that I love.

Even if they are going to be playing some new stuff, of course I want to hear the new stuff, but I want to hear the old stuff too. The rule which we have always stuck to is we insist on playing a few new tracks off the new album whatever it is. There will always be a few new numbers, and there will always be the songs that we are expected to play, and then you have to select tunes that you think will interest the fans, or bring back songs that you used to play that the fans love. I am constantly being asked to put numbers back into the set by fans who say, “you didn’t play my favourite” or “why don’t you do this one” (laughter).

So, I am always filing them in the back of my head, ‘so people want to hear Dream A Lie’ and then occasionally we will put them back into the set. In reality you have just got to mix it up, you mix and match, you try to keep everyone happy, which is an impossible job, but critically you must try to keep yourselves happy too (laughter).

In my opinion that is the most important part in all of this because if you don’t keep yourselves happy then it just becomes a job, doesn’t it?

Yes, it does, exactly. For us, it is all about the new stuff. Every time that we make a new album, that is what we are excited about and that is what we want to play to the fans. But, of course, we understand that they want to hear the classics too together with the hits. It’s those hits that got us to where we are, and it is those hits that keep us where we are so of course we are always going to play them. Even when you tire of songs such as Red, Red, Wine, which we do, we don’t rehearse it very often.

Whenever we are in rehearsals for a new set list or a new tour, then we don’t rehearse Red, Red, Wine much, but once we play it to an audience, what you get back from the audience when you play a tune like Red, Red, Wine, you have got thousands of people singing the song back to you, you can’t beat that, it really is just wonderful. And then, of course, once again you enjoy performing it. It brings it back to you why you love performing that tune and why they love it.

Is there currently any new material in the pipeline?

Yes, there is, constantly. We were actually talking about that last night. We had a zoom meeting last night and we were talking about material for the next album. Which I have to say I found hilarious because we are still touring this album and will be until way past Christmas (laughter). But yes, we are already talking about songs. Several members of the band have got ideas which they have already been working on with other members of the band. Different people have got different little projects, ideas in their heads that they are currently working on. It will all get bought to the band eventually, and it is at that point that we will all start working on it.

That’s how we do it, we jam together, as a band, because nobody writes anything musically, we just sit around in a studio, having just built another one. We will be sitting in there within a few weeks, jamming away, and working on the next album.

What would be Robin Campbell’s ideal Christmas?

A quiet one to be totally honest with you (laughter). I just love hosting Christmas with my wife having the family, kids and grandkids, that’s the only thing that I like about Christmas really. I hate the fact that it’s my birthday, in fact I hate the whole hypocrisy of Christmas (laughter). Having said that, I love celebrating it with my friends and family. I used to insist on going away on holiday for Christmas, getting away to somewhere hot, and not having to deal with it. But now that I have got grandchildren, I really enjoy the family get together, everybody round one table, all wearing stupid hats, pulling crackers, it’s nice but that is the only part of Christmas that I enjoy really.

And not watching the 1958 Andy Williams Christmas Special?

(Hysterical laughter) no (laughter).

It will be on TV somewhere if you have a look (laughter).

Thinking about it I might just watch the Big Fat Quiz Of The Year (laughter). I do quite like some of the stuff that you get on the TV at Christmas; all that general entertainment.

Out of all of the places that you have performed, which has given you the greatest sense of achievement?

That’s a hard one for me to answer. I hate picking out favourites because it’s like putting the other people down. We just get looked after so well wherever we go, the reaction that we get from audiences is unbelievable. We are so lucky that we can travel the world, go to any corner of the globe, the most remote parts of the world will still welcome us like royalty. We have played, and we are planning to do it again actually in 2026, but we have played all of the Southern hemisphere, all of the islands, Figi, Tonga, Bali, all of those islands and every island that we went to, a third of the island not only welcomed us in the streets, but also came to the shows.

It really was just fantastic and always has been. The Polynesian people that populate all of those islands, including Hawaii, love reggae and therefore love us. We have always been treated beautifully by all of those people. The Māori people of New Zealand really are just wonderful to us. The reception that we have just had in New Zealand really was fantastic. It’s like that pretty much everywhere we go. I personally think that New Zealand is a bit special because they did indict us into the Māori nation back in the 80s which was a fantastic experience and a great honour. So, we are all honouree Māori’s (laughter). So, we get treated more special over there, I guess.

Holland is another fantastic place for us to play because weirdly they also love reggae, but I think that might have something to do with the fact that they like marijuana too (laughter). We really do have a big audience over in Holland. We have probably had as many if not more hits in Holland than anywhere else, even more than the UK. I’m sure that we have had more number one’s in Holland than we have in the UK. We are playing the Ziggo Dome in Amsterdam in a couple of weeks and that holds 17,000 people and that is already sold out. It’s always that way. We really do get treated beautifully almost everywhere we go.

Is there anywhere that you haven’t played that you would like to play?

That’s easy to answer really, we have never played mainland China, and I really would love to do that. We have previously played Hong Kong, Singapore, most of the Far East, the Philippines, and I would love to go back to all of those places, but I really would love to play mainland China simply for the experience. We have played Japan a few times now, but never China. Back in the 80s China was a bit more closed off when we were touring. It would have been so much harder for us to get to tour China back then. I don’t think that the promotion would have been there at that time.

Now that it has opened up, and people are going and touring there, playing shows there at least, I think that there is a chance before we give up the ghost so to speak (laughter). I think that there is half a chance that we may do it, and I would love to do that literally just to say that I’ve played in China (laughter).

When you were growing up, which album would you say changed your life?

Oh man, that’s hard, there really are so many; there are just so many.

Having previously spoken to you about the records that you bought back in the day I would have thought that you would have said 1000 Volts Of Holt by John Holt?

That album was most definitely one of the major albums of my life even though it was considered to be very commercial at the time because all of the strings and everything. I personally thought that it was genius. In fact, I was selling hi-fi and underneath the hi-fi shop there was a record shop, and it was in Handsworth in Birmingham which was, and still is, a predominately black area. I probably sold more copies of a 1000 Volts Of Holt than anybody else in Birmingham I would think to people who were buying hi-fi (laughter). I would use the album as a demo track, when people would be listening to speakers and stuff, and I would put the album on, and everyone would say “what’s this” because it was revolutionary at the time with all of the strings and everything on it.

People just hadn’t heard reggae like that before. They were always knocked out by it and they would always say. “Who is this” and “I’ve never bought a reggae album before, have you got one of those” (laughter). I was selling the album all of the time. People would come into the shop asking, “is there anything worth listening to” and I would say, “this one” (laughter). I literally sold God knows how many copies of that album so, yes, that was a major album for me at the time. I was about twenty when that album came out (laughter). That’s one of them but I mean there is also Where I’m Coming From by Stevie Wonder, which he recorded when he branched out from Tamla Motown and took control of his own music.

I just thought, ‘this boy is a genius’ which of course he was (laughter). He is one of the major recording artists of the 2Oth century as far as I am concerned. Where I’m Coming From followed by Talking Book and then Innervisions, he recorded a series of albums from the late 60s and early 70s and to me they were essential listening. I would play those albums repeatedly over and over again. I would make my little brothers listen to them as well (laughter). In my opinion, Stevie Wonder formed every bit of R&B that followed. But also, African Herbsman when they were still The Wailers, with Lee Perry producing and co-writing songs; that was the album that I bought home to my brothers and said, “this is the future of reggae, listen to these guys” (laughter).

That album really did blow me away. Otis Redding Live In Europe would have to be another one. I’m just plucking them out of the air now; all of these albums were just so special. All of these albums were influential in building my love of music, and I still listen to them now.

Is there anybody out there who you would like to work with who you haven’t had the opportunity yet?

Well obviously, Stevie Wonder. I would gladly chop a little finger off if I could get to work with Stevie. That would be fantastic. I have to say that that has always been one of my dreams. I have heard rumours that he would like to work with me as well. He positively responded through friends, mutual friends who knew him said that they mentioned the idea to him, and he said that he wouldn’t mind doing that. Wouldn’t that be great? More than anybody else, I think that it would be absolutely great to work with Stevie. Having said that, I am always prepared to work with anybody who is prepared to work with me.

If any reggae legend came to me and said, “I want to make a record” or “I want to do a track with you guys” then there is a strong chance that we would say, “okay go on then” (laughter). We all have heroes and if they approached us then yes. For me, The Fathers Of Reggae album that we did, where we approached various reggae gods and asked them to record a track of ours. As a response to the Labour Of Love series, we had been recording their songs, so we asked them if they would do ours, which was one of the greatest experiences of my life working with those guys.

Having those guys sing your lyrics, your melodies, on your backing tracks, really was the stuff of dreams. Working with Robert Palmer was fantastic as well. I have worked with a lot of fabulous people already so I’m not desperate but if anyone who I was in to approached me then I would say yes at the drop of a hat.

Which album do you think that everyone should have a copy of?

To be totally honest with you, any one of those that I have mentioned. They are the most influential artists of the 20th century in my opinion. For pop music people like (Bob) Marley, Stevie Wonder, The Beatles there are certain artists that have more influence than most people realise. Things that they did back then changed the face of music forever. So, I would say any of those artists that I have previously mentioned.

Getting political for a moment, how has Brexit affected you as a touring band?

Firstly, it has made absolutely everything that we do a lot more difficult. Everything now is Visas, applications, and permissions, whereas you used to be able to travel everywhere on one passport. You can still do the travelling but there is just so much more red tape involved, it is so much more difficult, and it is so much more expensive. So, as you can see, Brexit has had a major impact on the whole business really.

On the subject of expense, why are concert tickets now costing well over £100 when pre-Brexit the same tickets were costing £30 or £40?

I have to be totally honest with you and say that expenses across the board have gone up but nothing like that much. I think that some people are just taking the piss (laughter).

To me, it appears that a lot of artists are trying to recoup what they lost during lockdown all in one go, and that simply can’t be right can it?

I know exactly what you are saying, and I have to agree that can often be the case. The thing is, it’s not just the artist. If you remember a lot of promoters went to the wall during lockdown because they couldn’t make any money, and because of that a lot of them now are scared simply because it was such a struggle, and they don’t want to fail. You would think that they would make the ticket prices reasonable, but when they are onto a good thing, they make the prices ridiculous. That’s the one thing that they are guaranteed. If that’s the one show or the one tour that they are guaranteed for this year, if they have got the right artist then they can put the prices up, so they do. It is not necessarily the artists that are dictating the price.

Also, you have to take into consideration the costs; costs have skyrocketed in every way, shape and form. We recently came back from America, and I would say that our costs probably tripled over there. Every single thing, the hire of any equipment, buses, air fares have doubled, hotel rooms have doubled, everything is at least twice, and some things tripled. The costs are frightening, absolutely frightening. So, you have got to charge more; that simply has to happen. But as I said earlier, I really do think that some people are taking the piss. Just look at the price of some Oasis tickets (laughter).

Thinking about the current crop of artists and bands, is there anybody out there who you would pay to see?

(Hysterical laughter) probably, but I just can’t think of anyone at the moment (laughter). That’s terrible. I accept that I am in a very lucky position where generally I don’t have to pay for tickets simply because if they want to come and see me, they don’t have to. It’s a lucky position for me to be in.

On that note Robin, let me once again thank you for taking the time to speak to me today. It’s been fantastic as usual. You take care and I will see you in Nottingham.

Oh, great stuff, are you going to be at the arena?

I am indeed; I will be shooting you as usual.

Well come along and have a glass of red with us after the show. Thanks Kevin, it’s always good talking to you. I will see you in Nottingham.

For tour details go to www.UB40.global

Robin Campbell, guitarist and founder member of the band UB40 chats with Kevin Cooper about the death of their saxophonist and friend Brian Travers, UB40’s new lead singer Matt Doyle, their latest album Bigga Baggariddim and their forthcoming 2022 UK Tour.

Robin Campbell is a guitarist and founder member of the English reggae and pop band UB40, who were formed in December 1978 in Birmingham.

The band has had more than fifty singles in the UK singles chart. They have also achieved considerable international success, having sold over 70 million records worldwide.

UB40 was proud of itself on the ethnic makeup of the band’s original line up which was very diverse, with musicians of English, Welsh, Irish, Jamaican, Scottish and Yemeni parentage.

The origins of UB40 began in 1978 when Ali Campbell got together with some of his friends. His brother Robin Campbell was initially reluctant to join the band but was persuaded to do so later the same year after he had bought a guitar. At the time of joining the band, Robin was an apprentice tool maker.

In 1988 UB40 performed at the Nelson Mandela 70^th Birthday Tribute Concert held at Wembley Stadium in London.

In January 2008, it was announced that Ali Campbell would be leaving the group after thirty years. Mickey Virtue departed shortly afterwards to join Ali. Astro also left in 2013 to join them.

When Ali left, elder brother Duncan joined to take over lead vocals but he retired in June 2021 following a stroke. He was replaced by Matt Doyle of fellow Birmingham reggae band Kioko.

Whilst busy preparing for their UK tour, Robin Campbell took some time out to have a chat with Kevin Cooper and this is what he had to say.

Robin, good morning. How are you today?

I’m very well thanks Kevin, how are you?

All is good thank you, and before we move on let me firstly thank you for taking the time to speak to me today.

No worries, no worries at all. It’s always good to catch up with you.

And just how is life treating you at this moment in time?

I have to be honest with you and say that everything is fine. However, having said that, I’m a little bit on edge at the moment, simply because we are about to start our first tour in almost three years (laughter). It’s all a bit up in the air and it’s all a bit nerve wracking, because we haven’t done one for so long. But to be totally honest with you, we are all dying to get back out there really.

I imagine that you are all chomping at the bit to get back out there especially after lockdown?

Absolutely, yes. When it first happened it was like a holiday for about the first ten minutes. It was a case of ‘this is good; I quite like this’ (laughter). But, as you most probably know yourself, it doesn’t take long for your thumbs to start twiddling, and everything to start itching. And then when it started to feel like you were being imprisoned, it was at that point that you started to resent it. What people don’t realise is that we didn’t earn a penny for well over two years. We actually got lent money by our promoter out of which we paid ourselves over the last two and a half years so we now find ourselves in debt to our promoter (laughter). In all honesty, I have to say that the past couple of years have been total mayhem.

We started touring in 2019. We did our first few shows of the British tour at the end of 2019. During the whole of 2019 we played a hundred and eight gigs; it was our usual busy year, and we had the album that we were promoting and all of that, and it just got stopped, almost overnight. I think that these British dates now are well into the third time that they have been rescheduled. It’s a bloody nightmare. In fact I wouldn’t blame anybody for not buying tickets really. People are so pissed off; don’t get me wrong it’s not just the tickets because you can always get a refund on the tickets, but you have to remember that people travel to gigs, they book hotels, and all that kind of stuff.

They never get their money back on hotels. We have just constantly got people coming onto Facebook and Twitter and whatever else, moaning that they have spent money and they have still not seen a gig in over two years. It really does get embarrassing, and I am just hoping that this is it and that we are back to normal now. On our Facebook page we have people saying that they still haven’t had their tickets sent out to them by Ticketmaster or whoever. They tell us that they are worried because the gig is close but they still haven’t had their tickets sent out to them yet; it’s a bloody nightmare.

The most annoying thing in all of this is that, yet again, we were given absolutely no advice or guidance from the government whatsoever.

That’s right, absolutely nothing. There was no help for any of the creative arts really. I’m not just talking about bands or management, but all of the people who work on the road, the technicians, all the roadies, lighting men, all the drivers; everybody got left high and dry. Members of our crew were affected, because obviously we couldn’t afford to pay them. We are not in a situation where we can afford to pay retainers anymore; half of our crew were getting jobs bloody driving for Amazon and people like that. It really was dreadful. One of our guys was working as a pizza delivery driver simply because he couldn’t find anything else.

We have briefly mentioned lockdown, what did you do to stay sane?

(Laughter) was that safe or sane. To be honest, I really did become a hermit for a while. We saw nobody, we kept to our own little bubble, and at one point we weren’t even mixing with family when the virus was at its peak. We were all terrified of infecting each other. So, for a long while all there seemed to be to do was eat (laughter). Then, when we did start working on the collaboration album we had to do all of that digitally, because you can now send stuff across the airwaves very easily (laughter). People were recording their parts and then sending the files back, which I have to say I found to be a really easy way of working.

At that time there were two or three of us in the studio, and we just kept it that way. We kept a safe distance from each other. I didn’t see a member of the band, other than on Zoom. I didn’t see anyone in person for months and months which was really the only way to stay safe, I guess. Touch wood, I haven’t had the virus but I think that at least four members of the band have all had Covid at some point, over the last couple of years. Some of them had cold like symptoms whilst others were really quite poorly. An engineer friend of mine, who kept telling me that Covid was fake, and that it was all a hoax ended up in a coma.

It astonishes me when you still hear people saying that Covid is all bullshit manufactured by the government. Just take a look at the figures.

I know, it’s incredible. Funnily enough, I was reading one last night as it happens. It was from someone who has sent me a friend’s request. He told me that he was a massive fan and was really nice about the band, but then I went and looked at his Facebook page to see what he was like and there he was spouting absolute drivel about how we are all fools in believing that there was ever a virus (laughter). It really is unbelievable.

Moving forward, in August 2021 we sadly lost Brian Travers, one of the original founder members of UB40. How hard was it or is it for you to carry on without him?

It’s massively hard for us to live with the fact that Brian is never going to be there again. All the time that he was ill, we were almost prepared for it. He had a long battle; he was fighting the tumours for at least two and a half years, and we just kept hoping, even though we all knew, we were all hoping that he would come back. We all hoped that at some point he would come back and say, “I’m here guys, I’m alright”. Brian was given the all clear several times and then, of course, as with brain tumours so often do, they just kept returning. It’s horrible. The thing is that you think that you are prepared, but in reality you never are.

I was quite surprised at how emotionally it knocked me sideways because I really thought that I had prepared myself for the inevitable, but when it happened, I really was quite shocked at just how much it affected me. I still miss him; we are always going to miss him. I think that I have been quoted a million times saying that there is a giant Brian shaped hole in the band and there always will be. It is impossible to replace him. Obviously, we have got another sax player, but we are not replacing Brian, we are just replacing the sax.

And just how are things with Duncan (Campbell)?

What can I say; physically Duncan is in fine shape. You would never know by looking at him that he had ever had a stroke. He’s not limping, he doesn’t have any numb parts, he hasn’t got any facial drooping or anything like that. He looks absolutely normal as if he has never had a stroke. He walks normally, he speaks normally, and as I say, physically he is in fine shape. But he is still dealing with his cognitive problems; his memory is bloody awful. Duncan and I sat in a studio together for four weeks; we went through the songs over and over, we went through the set list, whilst we played backing tracks and we sang together and he was singing really great. You would never know that he had had a stroke; he was in fine voice and singing beautifully but, he would simply forget where he was. He would forget what part of the song he was on, or what verse. He couldn’t remember lyrics so we had an autocue for him.

But even then, he would get involved in the song and not look at the autocue and he would lose where he was. I just kept saying to him, “just keep going, keep practicing and it will come back” and I have to say that he was improving. Everything seemed to be going alright, and I have to say that I was actually quite relieved, but then one day he just said to me, “I can’t do it, I’m going to have to stop”. More than anything he was terrified of letting us down. He was terrified of blowing it whilst on stage and in front of an audience, letting us and the fans down. He was simply terrified of that happening. At that point Duncan said to me, “I’m sorry, I simply can’t continue” and I have to say that he was very upset about it. He came to that conclusion himself, telling me that he felt that he needed to take the time out, to step back, and work on himself and his recovery. That was obviously a decision that we all totally supported and fully understood and that left us with our Plan B (laughter).

On the subject of Plan B, once Duncan had taken the decision to step away from the band, how difficult was it for you to find a new lead singer or did you already have Matt (Doyle) in mind?

Being totally honest with you, I already had Matt in mind. When we did the collaboration album back in 2020, we recorded a track with Matt as Kioko’s lead singer. He came into the studio and did a vocal over one of our backing tracks, and I have to say that I was very impressed with him. We had already done about forty odd shows with them in the UK and around Europe, and we had all become good friends anyway. When I worked with Matt in the studio, I just thought, ‘this boy can sing, he has a lot of talent and he shows a lot of promise’ (laughter). I actually thought then that if Duncan ever decided that he didn’t want to continue, then this is the kid that I would go to. And that was before Duncan had the stroke.

I was just thinking that because his voice is so good, I just thought that he would fit in great, plus he is a raving UB40 fan. He knows all of the songs; he has been singing them since he was a child, he tells us stories about how he would sit in the backseat of his parents car, singing along to UB40 songs for as long as he can remember. Obviously, some of the records were made before he was born (laughter). His parents were big fans of the band, and I have to tell you that he is actually Norman Hassan, our percussionist’s nephew (laughter). So, we have kept it in the family again (laughter). It really was fate when Duncan did have the stroke and then, some months later, told us all that he was retiring. I already had Matt in mind.

When you offered Matt the position, how long did it take him to say yes?

It was immediate (laughter). He said, “of course, I would love to” and I said what about Kioko and he said, “they are my best friends, all that they will do is wish me the very best” and I said, “are you sure, you are dumping them and there is no way that you can work with both bands, you are either with us or you are not” and Matt said, “no, no I understand that, and so will they”. I thought, ‘you have got a lot of faith in your mates’, and to be honest, they all hugged him, and they all wished him the very best. They even put a message up on Facebook where they said, “we wish our mate Matt all the very best with UB40”. I really was blown away with just how magnanimous they all were. It really was lovely.

A cheeky question for you, what does Matt bring to UB40 other than youth?

(Laughter) well if you hadn’t have said “other than youth” I would have said youth, because that is absolutely what he brings. Just like Duncan reinvigorated the band when he came, his wide-eyed enthusiasm absolutely reinvigorated us, because he was thoroughly enjoying himself and it’s the same with Matt. We did actually play a few shows last summer with Matt; we played a couple of festivals, maybe four, so he has already had the baptism of fire (laughter). We dropped him into the water, and he has done it, so he has got over that. You mentioned earlier that we should be chomping at the bit, which is exactly what Matt is like now; he really is desperate to get out there.

He has had so many well wishes from our fans that saw him at the festivals, and they have all said, “you sound great”. I know that this will sound really weird, but our voices really do blend together. We have recently done some recording and we actually wrote a song for The Commonwealth Games together, so we have recorded together now, and it’s amazing just how well our voices blend. We could be brothers (laughter) but let’s not go there because we are not (laughter).

Has Matt settled in as well as you would have expected?

Yes, he has, he is totally settled. There was absolutely no descent when I suggested bringing Matt into the group from any of the other members. Every one of them said, “great idea”. We had at that point all heard him sing on the collaboration album, we had all heard him singing over our backing track. So, that was the new sound of UB40 if you like.

Are you treating this as a new chapter in the UB40 story?

Yes, absolutely. In fact we are thinking of re-recording some of our old material with Matt, just out of interest, just for the fun of it. Matt’s voice sounds so good, and we don’t own the back catalogue anymore, any of the old stuff, so it would be very interesting to re-record some of the old original stuff.

And Matt also writes too?

Yes, he does and that really is a bonus. We wrote the song for The Commonwealth Games together, which is called Champion. I originally bought the idea to the band. It was a lyric that I had written, which is about competition and being the best that you can be, and all that kind of stuff, and Matt wrote an extra part for it. He came back the following day and said, “I have written something else” (laughter). He does write songs anyway, he was one of the writers in Kioko, and he really is desperate to do some original stuff.

You released your latest album Bigga Baggariddim last year and I have to say that I love it.

Thank you, that is so nice to hear. As you know, I love working with other people anyway, especially over our stuff, over our music; I love listening to other people’s interpretations of just what can be put over our music. I really do enjoy doing that and I find it fascinating. Some of the stuff that we got back, it is such an eclectic album, because the artists are so different, and they really do vary in age, from Winston Francis who was making records in the sixties, to Inner Circle who have been going even longer than we have, to the new kids, people like Leno Banton and Blvk H3ro, people like that who are in their twenties.

To have all of that different approach over our music, I have just had a whale of a time (laughter). I think that the stuff that House Of Shem sent us back from New Zealand is just world class. Like we did with everybody, we sent them three backing tracks out and asked them to pick one and write a song for us, if they were interested, and everybody sent one back, except House Oof Shem who sent three back (laughter). We loved all three so much that we actually used them.

Well at the moment I’ve got four go to tracks which are On The Road, Rebel Love, Did You See That and You Don’t Call Me Anymore. I think that they are fantastic.

Wow, and none of those are House Of Shem tracks (laughter). On The Road is TippaIrie, Rebel Love is Inner Circle, Did You See That is Pablo Rider and You Don’t Call Anymore is Kioko. Pablo is one of the artists off the original Baggariddim album which we did back in 1985/86. That was the kind of inspiration for it. The original Baggariddim album which we did in the 80’s was almost all made up of Birmingham artists; Birmingham rap artists apart from I Got You Babe which we did with Chrissie (Hynde) but the rest of it was all Birmingham acts. We even managed to introduce Panto Banton to the world.

So, that was the idea because we were so happy with the For The Many album, which is what we were touring in 2019 and while we were touring we were saying, “wouldn’t it be good to do a collaborations album using this album as the backing”. Everyone was up for it, and then of course Covid happened. So, whilst we were in lockdown we thought, ‘instead of talking about it why don’t we get on and do it’ (laughter). The idea was for us to send out tracks around the world to different people who we have met and worked with over the years, and hopefully get something back. Absolutely everybody who we sent stuff out to all sent us something back.

Will the forthcoming tour be to promote the Bigga Baggariddim album, albeit slightly belated due to Covid?

Well, it will be different in every territory won’t it. When we are in New Zealand we will definitely have House Of Shem coming along, guesting for us and doing a few numbers. In the UK, believe it or not, we will have Pablo Rider with us, so he will be doing Did You See That, but he will also be doing I’m Alright Jack which was Duncan’s song on For The Many. Pablo did a guest rap on that. And of course, Matt will be there so we will be doing a version of his Kioko tune (laughter). We could do the original, which is You Haven’t Called Me Yet, but instead of that we are going to do the Kioko version and then go into the Gilly G version which is the rap which he did on our original version.

So, as you can see, we are going to mix it up; we are going to do some stuff off Bigga Baggariddim obviously, as that is the album that we are supposed to be promoting, even though it is a year old now (laughter). And, of course, we will resurrect a few of the old favourites, some of which we haven’t played for a while which is something that we always try to do. And we will also be playing the songs that we absolutely have to play. The more casual fans must hear Red, Red, Wine and (I Can’t Help) Falling In Love With You, Kingston Town, those are the kind of songs that you have to play for the more casual fans; they are the records that they want to hear.

Do you mean the fans that are stuck in the past by any chance?

(Laughter) that is so right and then you have the hard core fans who want to hear your latest stuff together with the more obscure records from the past. So, you try and mix it up, you try to keep everybody happy, and you try to make it a party that everyone will know and everyone will sing and dance to. If they don’t know it, hopefully they will still dance and enjoy themselves. What you have to remember is that you can’t keep everyone happy. There is always somebody who will come up to me at the end of the gig and say, “you didn’t play my favourite” (laughter).

Were you happy with the fan’s reaction to the album?

Yes, I was, and I have to say that the fan’s reaction has been absolutely fantastic. It’s a real shame though that we can’t get any bloody airplay. The BBC seem to have decided that we are too old, or something, I don’t know. The only thing that I will say is that the charts do not mean a thing now. If you have got a label working you, if you have got a name then you will get a hit record. People today can get a number one hit by selling only ten thousand copies. Having a number one record doesn’t mean anything anymore. All that it means is that you have sold more records than anybody else that week. The problem is that nobody is selling anything anymore so for most part it means nothing. It’s not like twenty years ago having a number one; back then it was massive, and it gave it some longevity whereas now it goes in at number one and it is number thirty-three the next week (laughter).

Are there any thoughts on a new studio album?

As I mentioned earlier we are thinking about re-recording some of the old stuff with Matt and I am current working on that now. Again, Matt is really up for it, so watch this space.

How did you get to play the part of the house band in the movie Speed 2: Cruise Control?

(Hysterical laughter) I have absolutely no idea how we got it. I think that we got invited along, it was that simple. We met Sandra Bullock and she claimed that she had got us the job but then her co-star Jason Patric he claimed it as well (laughter). I think that they were just having fun with us. So, in answer to your question, I have no idea. I think that the offer came through the record company, who were Virgin at the time, and they just said, “do you fancy it” and who wouldn’t want to be in a Hollywood movie (laughter). I have to say they treated us wonderfully, for us it was like a little holiday, and they bought us all suits. They sent us with a blank cheque down to Armani and we really did have a ball (laughter). And then there we were on stage playing on a sinking ship; it was like playing on the Titanic.

On that note Robin, let me once again thank you for taking the time to speak to me today, it’s been delightful as usual.

It’s always an absolute pleasure Kevin. You take care and I will see you up there in Nottingham at Rock City. Bye for now.

Robin Campbell, (seen here third from the left), an English guitarist, singer, songwriter and founder member of UB40, chats with Kevin Cooper about the current state of the health of band member Brian Travers, celebrating forty years in the music industry, releasing a collaborations album and their forthcoming Christmas Hometown Show in Birmingham.

Robin Campbell is an English guitarist, singer, songwriter and founder member of English reggae and pop band, UB40. As a child he sang in a harmony group with his brothers and performed with their father on stage.

Campbell was initially reluctant to join a band with his brother Ali Campbell and six friends, but was persuaded to when he bought his first guitar. Once he joined the others in their jamming sessions, the eight musicians formed a band in 1979, deciding on the name UB40 after a form issued to people claiming unemployment benefit, although at the time Campbell was employed as an apprentice toolmaker.

UB40 went on to achieve huge success. They had more than 50 singles in the UK Singles Chart, and sold over 70 million records worldwide. They were nominated on four occasions for a Grammy Award for Best Reggae Album.

The band’s line up was stable for nearly twenty nine years from March 1979 until January 2008 when Ali left the band followed shortly after by Mickey Virtue and Astro. In 2008 Ali was replaced by his brother Duncan and in 2010 the band released their album, Labour Of Love IV with Duncan as the front man.

Since then they have released Getting Over The Storm in 2013 and earlier this year, For The Many.

Whilst preparing for their Christmas Hometown Show in Birmingham, Robin Campbell took some time out to have a chat with Kevin Cooper and this is what he had to say.

Robin, how the devil are you?

Kevin Cooper, as I live and breathe. I’m very well thank you; how the hell are you?

I’m very well thanks and before we move on, let me firstly thank you for taking the time to speak to me today.

It’s not a problem, absolutely no worries whatsoever.

And just how is life treating you at this moment in time?

Life now is pretty good. However, to be honest with you I am getting rather knackered (laughter). As you know we have been doing a lengthy 40th Anniversary Tour and we have just not stopped. It feels as though we have been performing for the entire year (laughter). We have just finished a nine-week tour of the States, where we played forty odd shows in those nine weeks. We literally had two days off, I think. So, as you can imagine, that was fairly heavy. We also played a few sold-out shows in The Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia and now, I have to say that I really can’t wait for our Christmas Hometown Show on 21^st December at the Birmingham Arena. So hopefully, I might just get a couple of weeks off in January (laughter).

Which year (laughter).

(Laughter) well it is most definitely the end of the celebrations for our fortieth year, and the Birmingham Homecoming Show will be the end of a very crazy eighteen months.

Before we move on, can I just ask you, how are things with Brian (Travis)?

To be honest with you it is very difficult to know. He simply doesn’t tell us. Obviously, Brian had his tumours removed the week that we came away on the road, but there is still a lot of stuff that is still going on. He is having another course of chemo and radiotherapy but he won’t tell us anything. I know that he refuses to stop partying, he lives the lifestyle (laughter). Since he has had his operation he has not stopped trying to raise money for a machine that they need at the hospital, so he has continued to raise money for The Giles’ Trust which as you know was set up by Stine and Ashley Giles to support the Queen Elizabeth Hospital here in Birmingham, in order to raise funds for research in to brain tumours. Brian has been tirelessly campaigning for that but in all honesty, no one would blame him or criticise him if he had a week off, but he never does. Brian just tells everybody that he is fine.

I did read on Brian’s Facebook page that he is hoping to join you and the boys on stage in Birmingham for at least one number. Is that still the plan?

Yes, it is, of course, even though he has been told not to play the Saxophone. He is currently practising once again, and I don’t know what to do. What do you do with a man like that? We have all begged him to slow down, take things easy and just get better but yes, he is insisting that he is going to come to the Birmingham Christmas Show if only for one song. He wants to come along and say hi to the audience which is exactly what Brian would do.

Does playing in Birmingham in front of your home town fans bring with it any added pressure?

To be honest with you I don’t feel that, but I do feel the pressure that it appears to put on other members of the band because of their friends and family. It puts pressure on us just because you suddenly get phone calls from people who you haven’t had phone calls from since the last Birmingham gig. They all want to be put on the guest list; they all want to be able to come and see you, and obviously you end up with a guest list that couldn’t possibly cater for all of the people that we want so we find ourselves having to buy a hundred tickets or whatever, or if we are playing at the NEC then it’s a couple of hundred tickets.

Over the years we have bought hundreds and hundreds of guest tickets, so as you can imagine, that’s a pressure. For us having to deal with the whole thing logistically is a bit of a nightmare but you lean on other people for that. But yes, some of the band really do feel the pressure of performing in front of friends and family. It doesn’t make any difference to me; I just think that an audience is an audience. Once you are up there and you are in the bosom of your mates, together with an audience, it really doesn’t matter who is in the audience, it is a mass thing. When you have got that wave of love coming at you, I just find it easy to deal with wherever we are.

I know that this may seem like I am playing catch-up but is it okay if we talk about your last album, For The Many, which you released on 15^th March 2019.

Of course it is, go for it.

Were you pleased with the fan’s reaction to the album?

Yes I was, the fans have absolutely loved it. In fact everybody who I know has said that it sounds like a throwback album, and that it could have been released back in the day after Present Arms. It sounds like the kind of thing that we were doing back in the early 80s so you really can’t ask for any more than that. I genuinely think that, although I will most probably say this every time that we release an album, I genuinely believe that it is the best album that we have made in a very long time.

I must agree with you. Whilst I was listening to the album, I was making notes and I have put ‘it is UB40 doing what UB40 do best, making a great album’.

Well then, there you go. Thank you, that is exactly what I feel. It is UB40 having the time to sit in the studio, play together, write together and that’s the result. We are not doing it music by numbers, or recording it separately in different rooms, which I have to say is how we tended to be making records, certainly through the 90s. We have gotten back more and more to playing as a band and putting things together as a band which was something that had stopped happening. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t the first album where we have done that. I just think that we have gotten better at doing it again and we are working well together. We compose well together, and I personally feel that Duncan is now fitting in great.

He has written two of the tracks on the album, so yes; it all just seemed to come together. I have to say that it took far too long, but we did it all in-between whilst we were away on the road so as you can imagine, it took far longer than it should have done simply because of the studio time. It was hard getting us all together in the same room. That really did prove difficult, because once people got home all that they wanted to do was become comatosed, veg out for a while and spend time with their families (laugher). So, it has taken us a long time chronologically, but in actual fact, if you added up the actual time that we spent working on the album, it would only be a few months. The problem is that those few months were spread over five years (laughter).

I’m so pleased that you have mentioned Duncan as I was going to ask you, is he now comfortable with his role within the band?

What can I say; I think that he is now a lot more comfortable than he has ever been. He’s the new boy isn’t he; its twelve years that he has been doing it now (laughter). When he first took over the role, I have to admit that he was like the proverbial rabbit in headlights, and like he said he had big shoes to fill. He was understandably nervous; in fact he was terrified that the fans wouldn’t accept him. However, we got over that pretty quickly, because the fans took to him immediately. But yes, I have to admit that it has taken him a while to relax into his position within the band. But I think that he is confident now, and I know that he is doing a good job and I think that he is enjoying it more now because of that.

I recently spoke to Jimmy (Brown) and I asked him about Duncan’s contribution to the band and he said that in his opinion, Duncan actually contributes far more than the previous lead singer did. Would you agree with that?

I think that certainly by the end Ali was doing very little to do with the band and the bits that he actually did, he was doing them reluctantly (laughter). I think that Duncan contributes in ways that he doesn’t even know because he got the rest of us enjoying it again because we weren’t with Ali. With Ali everything had become a chore. I’m sure that I have told you this before during one of our marathon chats (laughter). Certainly during the last couple of years, it really was hard work being in the band. None of us were enjoying it anymore really. It really was a struggle because Ali was blatantly unhappy. Having said all of that, I feel that Duncan coming into the band brought our mojo back.

It certainly fired everybody up again and got us all excited. Duncan also bought with him his enthusiasm, and the fact that he was bringing lyrics to the band, was just great. That’s one of the main reasons why Jimmy would be saying that Duncan has bought with him a greater contribution, simply because Ali never wrote a decent lyric (laughter). My Way Of Thinking is the only lyric that Ali ever wrote on his own. Duncan is really enthusiastic and is bringing lyrics to the band and more to the point, we are using them. So I guess that in that way, he makes a greater contribution.

I personally feel that there is more of a Dub feel to For The Many, which takes the listener back to your first album, Signing Off. Would you agree?

Yes, I would, absolutely and again, that was intentional. We wanted to get back to making music like we used to. We didn’t do any specific instrumental tracks like there are on the first album, but we all wanted to have instrumental passages which would heavily feature the Dub content and get back to doing it like that. That is what we loved about our early music because we were always Dub fanatics. The reason why we say that it could have been the follow-up to Present Arms is simply because we released Present Arms in Dub which was the very first Dub album in the charts. So, in all honesty, you could most probably argue that For The Many is a kind of mishmash of both of those albums really. As you know we have also recorded a Dub mix of For The Many, the same as we did with Present Arms.

A little bird tells me that you are going to be releasing a collaborations album, is that correct?

(Laughter) who the bloody hell have you been speaking to. Yes, we are, we are going to be releasing a collaboration album based on the music of this album. We have already sent backing tracks out to different artists and asked them to come up with something and I have to say that the early results have been both fabulous and quite surprising. We sent three tracks to a band called House Of Shem who are a reggae band from New Zealand who actually supported us the last time that we were over there in New Zealand. They are, in fact, New Zealand’s premier reggae band and a part of their heritage is the band called Herbs, who are also a New Zealand reggae group who were founded in 1979 and have been friends of ours since we first went over there in the early 80s.

Firstly, we asked them if they would be interested to which they replied, “we would love to” so we sent them three backing tracks over, asking them to pick one, and do whatever they wanted to do with it, and before we knew it, they had returned all three tracks with something on them and we love all three of them. I wrote back to them saying “we can’t choose, is it okay if we use all three tracks” and of course they were delirious (laughter). We have done the same with several bands. We have even got an Indian reggae band who we met when we were over in India; we sent them a track to do something on.

We have got some Jamaican artists who are living in England, some British reggae artists, we have both old-style Jamaican and younger plus we have the Birmingham band Kioko who have been supporting us on the whole British tour. They are the band from Birmingham who remind us of us when we were kids. The album is going to be really quite varied, eclectic and some very different styles of reggae all on our own music. It really is a lot of fun, which once again is harping back to the 80s when we recorded Baggariddim. Which leads me onto the title of the forthcoming album, we have called it Biggabaggariddim and it will be released very soon, I hope (laughter).

I’ve currently got three go to tracks on the album, Gravy Train, I’m Alright Jack but the track that takes me back to the 80s is You Haven’t Called. I think that particular track is UB40 doing UB40.

Well, believe it or not, I wrote that song back in the mid-90s and I actually wrote it for Duncan. He was going over to Jamaica to record an album with Ali. At that time, Ali was in Jamaica supposedly building a recording studio out there, or at least trying to (laughter). Ali said to Duncan “why don’t you come over, spend some time here, and I will record an album with you”. So, I demoed the song, gave it to Duncan and said “here’s a track for you, see what Ali thinks” so Duncan took it with him and guess what, Ali didn’t like it (laughter). Apparently, Ali listened to the track and said “no, you don’t want to use that” so it never got used (laughter). I have always harboured a bit of a grudge, as I have always thought that we should have used that tune, it’s a good song.

I actually wrote it in the style of Gregory Isaacs. If you combine The Border and Night Nurse, you pretty much get the backing for You Haven’t Called. It is very much in the style of Gregory which is what I wanted it to be as Duncan is a massive Gregory Issacs fan. So, that was the idea but unfortunately, the song never got used and here we are some twenty-five years later, and I’m thinking ‘I could resurrect that’ (laughter). So, I took it to the band, and what you have to remember is that most of them had never heard it. What can I say, they loved it. So that was it, it finally got used. Even though it is a 90s tune, it is a 00s band backing track because we obviously totally re-did the demo and completely re-did the vocals. All of the original work was done back in the 90s and it is based on a bunch of 80s tunes really.

For a minute then you made me go cold because when you mentioned Night Nurse I automatically thought of a certain Mr Mick Hucknall (laughter).

Oh dear (laughter). Unfortunately, a lot of people do. It’s the association isn’t it simply because he did the version that was successful.

You and I have spoken before and I have never asked you this. When the previous lead singer left the band didn’t you fancy stepping forward and taking over the mantle?

Not really, no. I have never thought of myself as a lead singer. However, that doesn’t mean that I can’t take a lead vocal. But being the lead singer in a band is a totally different job to what I have always done. I know what I am good at, and I know that I do a supporting role very well. I just think that I can do my job better supporting the lead vocalist. I always knew that Duncan, given the chance, could do it. I mean, what I always wanted was for the three of us to be vocalists in the same band. Right from the beginning I was begging Duncan to be in the band, but he just thought that nothing would ever come of it, plus the fact that he had other things on his mind. He went off and did his own thing.

He will never admit it, but he regretted that decision for over thirty years (laughter). He was delighted when he finally got the chance. How many people get the chance to join the band that they originally turned down thirty years ago (laughter). To Duncan it was a bit like winning the lottery; he really was delighted. I was totally confident in the knowledge that he would be able to do the job. So, in my usual long-winded approach to replying to a question, I have never wanted to be the guy who has the spotlight on him all the time.

I last saw you here in Nottingham at the Royal Concert Hall on 13^th May which seems a hell of a long time ago now, but I really did have a great time.

That’s brilliant, thank you. I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the show. And for us to play the Royal Concert Hall just proves that we are moving in the right direction.

This year has seen you celebrating your fortieth year in the business. Can you believe that it really has been forty years?

(Laughter) I must be honest with you and say no, not really. Forty years is a lifetime isn’t it (laughter).

When you originally formed the band, how long were you expecting it to last?

We were always serious, and we always saw it as a profession, simply because our father was a professional musician. If we were going to do it, we were always going to take it seriously and we intended to do it as a job. What you must remember is that the pop business is a fickle business isn’t it (laughter). If you got ten years out of a band you were normally delighted. Most bands only ever get either three years or five years success, and then call it a day, simply because they stop getting played on the radio and it dies rather quickly for most bands because of the nature of the business. For a short time, you are flavour of the month; you are fashionable, which is why we have always steadfastly refused to be fashionable because we wanted longevity.

However, if you had asked us in our twenties what longevity meant we would have probably said ten years. Who the hell thinks that they are going to be doing the same job for forty years and here we are now hoping that we are going to be doing it for fifty years (laughter). Nobody imagines that. I’m sure that The Rolling Stones never believed that they would still be doing it in their bloody seventies (laughter). The longer that it has gone on the more I pinch myself and wonder if it could possibly keep going. The only thing that really seems to slow us up is illness. On the British tour I lost my voice when I picked up a virus. My voice just disappeared and there was absolutely nothing that I could do about it.

It meant that we ended up pulling a few shows until I got my voice back and then we put those back into the tour schedule. Obviously, Brian’s illness has slowed him up a bit, not as much as I would have wanted it to, which has meant that he has been unable to be with us out on the road (laughter). But other than illness, or worse, I can’t imagine what is going to stop us because we are loving it again.

UB40 were one of the leaders of fan funding. Did the recent collapse of PledgeMusic hit you hard?

Oh yes, in the same way as it hit everyone else. We personally had to get copies of the album and mail them out to everybody who hadn’t received them. Take it from me, there were quite a few and we never saw any money. They folded and we tried our very best to honour all the pledges, and as far as I knew we had managed to do all of them, but I am not surprised that a few of them have fallen through the net. It really was a difficult time for us. We were saying to people “if you have pledged then do please let us know” and we got a list from PledgeMusic as well. We personally sent those albums out, and we have never received the money from Pledge.

What caused the collapse; did they simply overstretch themselves?

As much as I know about it, and from what I have gathered, they most definitely overstretched themselves. The American leg of the company built bloody great big offices, they expanded much too quickly and spent money that they didn’t have. In fact, they most probably spent our money building a big, posh office block.

It’s a shame because the business model, in theory, does work. It makes the fans feel so much closer and almost a part of what it is that the band are doing at that moment in time.

I totally agree with you. In theory the business model does work, although it has now been superseded by bigger and better business models. It is a great way of getting your music out to your fans. When Pledge was working, I have to say that it was brilliant. People had all sorts of success and people had hit albums. In fact I think that Status Quo had a number one album with Pledge, Robbie Williams did it, lots of artists were doing it; it had become an accepted way of getting your music out there. It was working so well, so much so that we didn’t even think that we were taking a risk at the time. But there you go, it just shows how little I know (laughter).

What can you remember about your first appearance on Top Of The Pops?

That was with Food For Thought and I can remember it quite well. In fact, it is still on YouTube (laughter). We really did feel as though we had arrived after that as far as we were concerned. It all happened so quickly, what with Chrissie (Hinde) discovering us and us having a hit single by the end of the tour, and then all of a sudden, we were requested to appear on Top Of The Pops. It really was a ‘oh my god, can this really be happening’ moment. We really had arrived. We were this gang who had basically taken our social circle out on the road, and whoever wasn’t in the band was a roadie (laughter).

It was an adventure; it was the beginning of the great adventure. Everybody religiously watched Top Of The Pops every week when we were kids, so for us to actually be on there, we knew that the country was watching us. If you ever watch it on YouTube you will see that we can’t get the smiles off our faces (laughter). We are just beaming at each other singing this totally miserable song, all about the hypocrisy of Christmas and starvation, and we have got big grins on our faces which is what our gigs have always been about really (laughter). It really doesn’t matter what we are singing about; when it come to performing, it’s all about having a party. It’s about enjoying yourself and dancing.

What was the first record that you bought?

Oh my word (laughter). I haven’t got a clue. I have bought so many that I simply couldn’t tell you. When I was a teenager I used to buy a single every week, without fail I would get myself off to the shops and I would buy a single every week. But, oh man, the first one I couldn’t possibly tell you (laughter). What I will say is that it would most probably have been a Prince Buster single or something like that. Having said that it could easily have been a Beatles single or a Motown record or an Otis Redding record; I was listening to a lot of different stuff back in the 60s. I was listening to a hell of a lot of different stuff before I fell in love with Reggae. So, let’s turn this around and ask you what the first record was that you bought (laughter).

That’s easy; it was Down The Dustpipe by Status Quo (laughter).

Bloody hell (laughter). I have got that album believe it or not. There you go, my interests were so varied. I have never bought a Quo record since, but I really did love that tune, Down The Dustpipe when I was a teenager and because of that I bought the album which, as soon as I got it home, I regretted (laughter). Quo have never been my taste at all, but I really did love that single and I’ve got the album because if it (laughter). You are honoured because I don’t tell many people that (laughter).

Who did you first see performing live?

Oh blimey, I can see why you save these questions until the end of the interview. For me, these really are impossible questions for me to answer because my dad was a performer, and so obviously as a kid I saw my dad live. Also, he ran the biggest Folk club in Europe during the 60s and many different artists, even American artists such as Paul Simon played at my dad’s club. All sorts of people including Joni Mitchell played there and I saw them all as a kid. One of the first concerts that I went to was to see a man called Ramblin’ Jack Elliott who was an American cowboy, who sang country folk and who stayed at our house (laughter). And believe it or not, during his show he dedicated a song to us.

We were all sitting up in the balcony, he came on stage and he said in a cowboy drawl, “I would like to dedicate this song to the Campbell boys” (laughter). I think that at that time Ali and Duncan were four and five years old, so I would have been around eight years old at the time. That is quite possibly the first concert that I saw, but I honestly couldn’t tell you because I have just grown up in and around music. I found myself surrounded by different types of artists all my life.

When I asked Jimmy the same question he came back with “well I saw Bob Marley at the local Odeon”. Just how do you beat that (laughter).

Yes, I know because I took him (laughter). I even bought his ticket.

I bet he still owes you for it.

Of course he does (laughter). At that time, I was the only one working you see. They were all babies. It was back in 1976 at the Birmingham Odeon. I took around eight people to the gig, one of whom was my little brother Ali. Jimmy was there, I think that Earl (Falconer) went there as well but he went under his own steam, also my girlfriend at the time. There was a whole bunch of us who went. But as I have said, that certainly wasn’t my first concert.

Having said that, I must tell you that was the concert which was the catalyst; it really made us form UB40. We all came out of that place on a cloud saying, “we have got to do that for a living, come on, let’s form a band, let’s stop talking about it, let’s do it”. It still took us a further two years for us to do it seriously. But yes, that was kind of the catalyst for the band, Bob Marley in 1976 at the Birmingham Odeon.

What was the last song or piece of music that made you cry?

Oh my god, you really do ask some deep questions. I simply can’t think which is ridiculous because I am a total softie and music can bring tears to my eyes very easily. God, I really can’t remember because I get very emotional about music anyway.

That’s what music is all about; it’s to bring all those emotions to the surface.

Yes, it is, it really is emotional communication, that’s what it is, absolutely. And if it gets you to cry then it is doing its job. Lyrics of ours have brought tears to my eyes. I have listened to one of our songs that I haven’t heard for a while and have been just chocked up. I have often thought, ‘oh my god did we really write that’ (laughter). Stevie Wonder’s lyrics have brought tears to my eyes, for me lyrics tend to do it in combination with the music. For me, Guns In The Ghetto is a really sad lyric that chokes me up every time that I hear it, which just so happens to be one of ours. Many other artists have also been able to do that to me.

Whether it is Sam Cooke singing A Change Is Gonna Come, or Otis Redding, he always manages to choke me up. Especially when I am listening to Otis and suddenly, I realise just how young he was when he died and just how short a time that we had him for. The thought of listening to Otis can choke me up because I loved him so much. I know that sounds ridiculous, but it still feels like that whenever I listen to him.

I have to come clean and tell you that (Sittin’ On) The Dock Of The Bay does it for me every time.

Well there you go. I like Try A Little Tenderness; that gets to me whenever I hear it.

On that note Robin let me once again thank you for taking the time to speak to me today, it’s been absolutely fantastic plus it’s been a short one for you this time, only thirty-nine minutes (laughter).

(Laughter) thanks Kevin; it’s been great as usual, if a little shorter (laughter). You take care and I will see you in Brum mate.