ShareSteve Hackett, an English guitarist famed for being a member of Genesis, chats with Kevin Cooper about his admiration for the late John Mayall OBE, the greatest Genesis albums ever, his latest album The Circus And The Nightwhale and his forthcoming 2024 tour of the UK.
Steve Hackett is an English guitarist who gained prominence as a guitarist of the progressive rock band Genesis from 1971 to 1977. He contributed to six Genesis studio albums, three live albums, seven singles and one EP before he left to pursue a solo career.
He released his first solo album, Voyage Of The Acolyte, whilst still a member of Genesis in 1975. After a series of further solo albums beginning in 1978, Hackett co-founded the supergroup GTR with Steve Howe in 1986. The group released the self titled album, GTR, which peaked at number eleven on the Billboard 200 in America and spawned the top twenty single When The Heart Rules The Mind.
When Hackett left GTR in 1987 due to financial and management squabbles, the group disbanded. He then resumed his solo career going on to release a further twenty-eight, the latest being The Circus And The Nightwhale in 2024. He continues to tour worldwide on a regular basis.
Whilst bust rehearsing for his forthcoming tour, he took some time out to have a chat with Kevin Cooper and this is what he had to say.
Good afternoon Steve, how are you?
I’m doing very well thanks Kevin, but more to the point, how are you today?
I’m good thank you and before we move on, let me thank you for taking the time to speak to me today.
That’s fine; I always enjoy it when you and I manage to speak to one another.
On that point, let me just tell you that this is our seventh time chatting with one another.
Is it really, well we really must stop meeting like this (laughter). I have to be totally honest with you and say that it’s always fun so here’s too many more.
I must ask just how is life treating you at this moment in time?
Well, we are trying to move house at the moment. We are currently shifting around large pieces of furniture, and stuff like that so, what can I say but we are now entering very interesting times right now. These are interesting times of change.
Before we talk about the forthcoming tour, can we go back to the 16th February and the release of The Circus And The Nightwhale?
Sure, absolutely, yes indeed proudly. The album has done really well I have to say. It charted in a lot of places and the fans seem to be very happy with it, which is just as well for me. I feel that it has had the strongest reaction out of all of the solo albums that I have done, and immediately so. Whereas back in the day things took longer to permeate, whereas these days things either catch on like wildfire or they sink like a stone. However, I am happy to report the former.
I have to ask, where did the title come from?
I have to own up and whilst I would love to take all of the credit for that, it was in fact my wife Jo who suggested the title (laughter). I had already recorded a couple of tracks which were autobiographical, and Jo said, “why don’t you record a whole album that is totally autobiographical but try and do it in a way which perhaps reels people in rather more with a story”. So, although the album is autobiographical, and it’s me, there is in fact another aspect to it, as if it went off in another dimension with another character called Traveller. Jo and I were able to mythologize things rather more, rather than having to keep them entirely grounded which enabled the whole project to become even more fantastical.
I have to say that the fans absolutely love it.
I’m absolutely thrilled by that, and I have to tell you that on the current tour I kick off with three tracks straight off The Circus And The Nightwhale which seem to be being greeted everywhere like old favourites which really is very nice. Of course, people like to have time to be able to sing along with whatever it is but I think that the energy of those three tracks is what fires people up live because there is something about the album and there is something about that feeling of travelling through time that you get with the very first track, the oral description of London back in the 1950s; it’s like the steam train meets the Ovalteenies meets the BBC, meets Listen With Mother, then a string orchestra, and then a rock band (laughter).
It’s like you are travelling through these various things like fast shifting scenery, which actually paint the picture. The album was setup in a way that is intriguing to people. I would be intrigued if I heard all of those things myself. It’s like a quickstep, or a foxtrot through nostalgia if you like.
Which three songs do you open the current tour with?
They are Children Of The Smoke, Circo Inferno and These Passing Clouds.
I currently have three go to tracks and they are; Wherever You Are, Into The Nightwhale and Ghost Moon And Living Love. I personally feel that those three tracks are fantastic.
I really am glad that you like those three tracks because I like those three myself. I really do feel that they are strong tracks. In fact, the very first one to be finished was Wherever You Are, and, ironically of course that track is towards the end of the album, but I felt that it really took off in not just an instrumental sort of way, but vocally as well. It seemed to be in a comfortable area although I’m reaching for high notes it seemed to suit and it is a cross between a rock song and a love song as indeed Ghost Moon And Living Love seems to be another favourite. Again, I had spent a lot of time trying to get the vocal and the vocals right on that, although having said that I really can’t complain (laughter). I personally feel that Into The Nightwhale really does fit well on the album and I am pleased with the way that the album has been received.
Now we must move on and speak about the forthcoming tour. Are you looking forward to being back out on the road here in the UK?
Yes, I am, I have just got back from Hungry, where I have been working with Rob Townsend, so yes, I am looking forward to being back on the road because domestic life can be rather complicated (laughter). Please don’t get me wrong when I say that as I don’t mean my romantic life with my wife Jo, which I have to say is absolutely solid and wonderful. When you are at home, I find that there are so many things to do, especially if you are contemplating a house move, there are a thousand and one things that you have to do, when you are at home. However, whenever you are out on the road on tour, I’m still making a noise for a living, and I am still living out of a suitcase (laughter).
I understand that really well, I understand that everything that I need is there in that suitcase and then there is a backpack for everything else that I need. Whereas domestic life, or civilian life shall we say, entails that you need to have relationships with doctors, lawyers, banks and car parks whereas when I am on the road this sort of thing is done for me. I get driven everywhere with the rest of the band; we show up, we check into a hotel, we do our sound check, then I will hang around the theatre for a bit until it’s time for the gig. Many years ago when I did a track called The Show, it really is a very simple life and as you know I am a simple man. I’m pretty good at that. I know exactly what I am going to get whereas when I am at home the tyres will need changing on the car; it’s all sorts of events (laughter).
The forthcoming tour is split into three parts. How will it run and how will it be split?
Basically, the three tracks which we spoke about earlier from The Circus And The Nightwhale kick off the evening. Then, the first half is some of my more nostalgic solo stuff, then we have a break. Then in the second half we have nine tracks from The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, not the whole thing, then we have three songs from Selling England By The Pound, and one track at the moment from A Trick Of The Tail. So, that’s pretty much it. I didn’t want to spend the time doing nothing but The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. I know that there are other bands that go out there and do the whole thing in its entirety with bell bottoms, wigs, and moustaches (laughter).
I do what I feel is the strongest for me, the strongest tracks and where the guitar has got something to offer. That really is important to me. I do my favourite tracks. There are other tracks that I could include as well, but I want to give the audience a fair smattering of other things. There are people who like to hear the solo stuff, and who prefer the solo stuff. There are also people who would prefer to hear all Genesis stuff, so I try to address both the disenfranchised fans of early Genesis and the later fans of the more recent work and there are a surprising number of them.
Many Genesis fans regard The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway as the greatest Genesis album ever. Where does that sit with you?
Well, I think that the best Genesis album ever, in fact I have to say that in my opinion there are two which run back-to-back, Foxtrot and Selling England By The Pound. Please don’t get me wrong as I think that all of the albums are great but those two are my personal favourites. I don’t think that there is a weak track on either of those two albums. At the time that we first did Foxtrot I thought that it was all over; I didn’t think that people would be in to the idea of something that filled practically a whole side, and that was Supper’s Ready. I have never had any problems doing it live, it has its complexities and challenges but somehow, I think that they were both very strong albums whereas I have always felt that The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was rather more radical so it tends to divide people.
People either love it or hate it. So I tended to specialise in the things that I think are perhaps more romantic; The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway itself, It, The Lamia, Fly On A Windshield, the more energised tracks, which I think are great melodise, so they happen to stick. I do what resonates with me, but overall, there is a feeling within the band that perhaps the band that was Genesis, all five of us, that perhaps it might have been better as a single album. Having said that, I suspect that you wouldn’t get everyone to agree, just what that strong single album would be. At that time the band were being very creative whilst being in somewhat disarray with the loss of our singer at the time, who was Peter Gabriel in the pre-Phil Collins front man days. I think that the album really is Peter Gabriel’s swansong. I know that he really did believe in it, he absolutely loved it and it very nearly got turned into a musical (laughter). It ain’t happened so far but you should never say die.
Picking up on what you said about Peter, was recording The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway the beginning of Genesis imploding?
I think that it was a start of a band imploding as a five piece, at that time, and gradually whittling it down to a four piece, and subsequently a three piece. Those implosions were implied if not literally.
You mention that you will once again be revisiting some of your solo work on the forthcoming tour, what can we look forward to hearing?
Right, here we go, off the top of my head let me see (laughter). People Of The Smoke, Circo Inferno, These Passing Clouds, The Devil’s Cathedral, Every Day, A Tower Struck Down, somewhere along the way there is a bass solo which is rather spectacular from Janus Rheingold followed by Camino Royale, and then most probably the whole of Shadow Of The Hierophant. So, as you can see it is quite an extensive solo half of the show.
Am I correct in thinking that you will have Amanda Lehmann joining you on this tour?
Yes, that’s right; Amanda will be joining us for all of the shows. That means that the show will include the full-length version of Shadow Of The Hierophant which come out as a substantial Genesis length piece. Also, for a couple of shows my brother John is going to join us on stage, so we might shift things around a little bit, in order to play Hands Of The Priestess, which was Johns flute debut with me back in the days of Voyage Of The Acolyte album. I really am looking forward to having the extras with us on stage (laughter). I have to say that it is one hell of a team, they really are wonderful.
You are now some thirty solo albums in, plus your albums with Genesis. Just how difficult is it for you to put a set list together?
Well, what can I say, I have to make some hard and fast decisions. Because Circus And The Nightwhale was a hit I felt the need to celebrate that. Whereas other times I have been more circumspect, and I have thought, ‘it’s the older material that people recognise and respond to’ the things that they can sing along to, but I have to say that I have managed to bridge the gap perhaps between the past and the future. It is always a difficult decision, and I always feel that whatever I do I am letting down potentially fifty percent of the audience.
But I think that the solo stuff is most loud and the recent things have been charting once again, and not just in this country. We have received some good charting positions in Germany, and have managed to go to number one in some charts, in some places. I have got absolutely nothing to complain about whatsoever. You try to come up with the old favourites together with the new successes which is a lovely feeling and a great place to be in to have that choice. But being totally honest with you, it’s a hard one.
Once again you are joining us here in Nottingham at The Royal Concert Hall on Wednesday 16th October and I have just checked ticket sales, and I have to say that they are going really well.
Well, that’s very good. It really is very nice to know. Most places are selling out whilst a few of the others need a little help. But in the main, all of the shows are doing really well. We seem to be doing really well in the larger places. I’m told that The Royal Albert Hall is all but sold out. I am thrilled to be able to do that. It’s great for me to be able to play The Symphony Hall in Birmingham once again, and The Royal Concert Hall in Nottingham plus it’s great for me to be able to play in Swansea. It really is fantastic for me to be able to do so many of these places which really are a second home to us. We are no strangers to these places, my band and me.
I know that you are always working and that you can’t sit still. Is there anything new in the pipeline?
As you know I am always writing new stuff, always playing and doing a phenomenal amount of hours playing the guitar both electric and acoustic, because you have to keep up the chops, and your nails have to be right, so I actually keep at it. That doesn’t always come back that easily, plus you make new discoveries. It’s not all drudge trying to compete with the guitar Olympics (laughter). It’s not all bad, certain things reveal themselves, great sounds, great noises, great bits of equipment that come my way, so I’ve got to keep my hand in (laughter).
You have travelled the world many times. Is there anywhere left that you would like to play?
Oh, my goodness, well there are still many places that aren’t really on the Rock ‘n’ Roll map. I have one or two friends who have managed to play in China, India and Greece but I haven’t managed to so far. I look forward to perhaps battling against the audiences over there who have absolutely no idea as to who I am, what band I played with, and just why is he doing this new stuff, or even, ‘why is he playing a guitar’ (laughter). When I was over in China this was a place that had never heard of Genesis or Phil Collins. Whenever I spoke to people, they didn’t know who the hell I was talking about. These people have most probably never heard of Elvis (Presley) or Bob Dylan or arguably even The Beatles. China really is a long way away and so there are far flung corners of the globe that I have visited, Borneo for example. I don’t suppose that Bing Crosby was all that big in Borneo, but you never know (laughter).
On Monday 22nd July 2024 we sadly lost John Mayall OBE. Did you ever get to perform with him?
Sadly, I never got to perform with John Mayall but I have to say that he was an early hero of not only mine, but many, many people. I think that he did a wonderful job as being the real thing, he really kept touring and I think that he was very focused, but also very passionate about the music that he obviously loved and I think that without his example, because he was really linking the Trad Jazz boom days and the early start of the blues, to have Chris Barber on the stage with him for his 70th birthday bash, was absolutely wonderful.
I met John at an awards ceremony just as he was about to turn 80 and he said, “I’m doing a gig in a week’s time” and I said to him, “I used to come and see you perform at Eel Pie Island a very long time ago” and at that time I was 16 and John was 33. Me and all my pals used to think, ‘wow, how does he get up on stage and still do that at the ripe old age of 33’ (laughter).That’s how you used to think when you were 16, The Rolling Stones were five years older than me, Eric Clapton was five years older than me, and all of these guys who were in their early 20s who are now pushing 80 and over, not to mention 90 (laughter).
I was a great fan of John Mayall and all of the marvellous people that he had going through his band. I personally think that John was a genius. One doesn’t think of him as an empresario, simply because he was always getting his hands dirty so to speak. You would often find John loading in the gear at gigs. I don’t believe that it was ever about the highs, and I don’t think that it was ever about the hits, it was just about the sheer joy of the music and whenever I went to see John Mayall, I always knew that it was going to be a great show. I remember arriving at Eel Pie Island late one evening and the band were already on stage.
Why the hell I was late I have no idea, but Peter Green was with the band at that time, and they were playing the old Freddy King number the immortal The Stumble, which I recorded myself many years later. It was at that moment where you have to do a double stop thing in order to play it right and Peter Green was doing that with absolute ease, and I have to say that it sounded brilliant. Peter looked over at John Mayall and they would just smile, and I thought I don’t know if these guys realise just how thrilled I was to see playing at that level going on in front of me. It was one of those rare occasions where you can eavesdrop on the Gods as it were, doing what they seemed to do effortlessly.
But I know from many years of experience that being on stage and doing what seems effortless isn’t (laughter). Everyone is on stage dealing with whatever they have to deal with, their equipment, whether or not their wife is still speaking to them, all of these things which would be a distraction. When you are that young and keen as I was at the age of 16 to be in there, underage, not really allowed to be in there, drinking beer underage, but feeling that it was absolutely where I ought to be. I always wanted to be on that stage if not playing with John Mayall myself I always harboured the idea that one day I would call John up and say, “I don’t know if you remember me but it’s the old Steve Hackett here and I was wondering if you would mind if I played a 12 bar with you or whether you would like to make a guest appearance on my latest album” (laughter).
However, that never happened. I came very close to working with the late Jack Bruce who had been through John’s band. Jack, Keith Emmerson, Simon Phillips and I were going to form a band at one point. We rehearsed together, and it really was going very well. I think that it was Jack Bruce who felt that with Cream it was Eric Clapton who had walked away with all of the honours. What I wanted to be able to say when I was going out to lunch with him was, “yes, but you organised all of the songs” but in reality what I should have said to him as a gushing fan was, “yes, but what you don’t realise is that you are absolutely brilliant and you have got that brilliant voice and you have no idea as to how it affected the young me” (laughter).
Hey, you know, these guys are the real thing and so many of them have passed, and so many of the greats are now gone. Hopefully they are off to the great jam in the sky where we all hope to go one day. It’s wonderful to be in a position to contemplate that, and the wonders of a music scene that was bourgeoning in the 1960s. There was so much going on, it really was a quantum leap in terms of creativity, the power of playing, and just where did these guys spring from; where did Peter Green spring from, he was playing with John Mayall after he had only been playing the guitar for three years according to legend. How is that possible in three years surely that can’t be true (laughter).
It really is amazing that John had Clapton, he had Peter Green, and Mick Taylor of course, all in that band, and it really was extraordinary. I saw more gigs with Peter Green at the helm than I did John Mayall and before Fleetwood Mac were formed and he was basically totally brilliant with John Mayall. Mayall gave Peter Green loads of space, which was the thing. John always gave his star performers plenty of space, and I think that he was bright enough and kind enough to give people what they needed in order to shine. I think that John was competitive in terms of the idea; if he knew that there was a better player around, he would always try to bring in the better player. You could be told from one minute to the next, “you are no longer in the band, it’s someone else” (laughter). John was every much the band leader and for that I salute him (laughter).
On that note Steve let me once again thank you for taking the time to speak to me today, it’s been delightful as usual. Good luck with the move and I will see you here in Nottingham.
Thanks Kevin it’s been great. Make sure that you come and say hi when we get to Nottingham and here’s to interview number eight. Bye for now.
